Finding the Second Derivative of a Partial Derivative with Multiple Variables

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the second derivative of a partial derivative involving multiple variables, specifically focusing on the expression dy/dx = φ(x, y). Participants are exploring the implications of treating φ as a function of both x and y and the application of the chain rule in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the validity of breaking down φ(x, y) into φ(x) + φ(y) and discussing the implications of such a separation. There are attempts to clarify how to apply the chain rule when taking the second derivative, with references to specific forms of φ.

Discussion Status

Some participants are actively engaging with the concepts and attempting to reconcile their understanding with the professor's notes. There is a recognition of the need to apply the chain rule, and while various interpretations are being explored, there is no explicit consensus on the approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of partial derivatives and the application of the chain rule, with some expressing uncertainty about how to handle the function φ(x, y) when deriving. The discussion reflects a mix of assumptions and interpretations regarding the nature of φ.

lifhgrl823
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Could someone please explain to me how to find the derivative of this:

dy/dx = φ(x, y)

Should I break up the equation to make it dy/dx = φ(x) + φ(y) and then derive the parts?

I would then get d²y/dx² = ∂φ/∂x + ∂φ/∂y
do I have to also multiply both terms by their respective derivatives of the inside variable?
 
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lifhgrl823 said:
dy/dx = φ(x, y)

Should I break up the equation to make it dy/dx = φ(x) + φ(y) and then derive the parts?
If φ(x, y) is arbitrary why do you think you can break it up to φ(x) + φ(y)? If φ(x, y) = xy, how can this be broken up into φ(x) + φ(y)?
 
That's a good point. My professor wrote that the second derivative should be:

∂φ/∂x + ∂φ/∂y (dy/dx) = ∂φ/∂x + φ(∂φ/∂x)

I've been trying to play around with the equation and see how I could get that answer.
All of the partial derivatives I've done previously had equations that were equal to f(x,y) or such.
 
lifhgrl823 said:
That's a good point. My professor wrote that the second derivative should be:

∂φ/∂x + ∂φ/∂y (dy/dx) = ∂φ/∂x + φ(∂φ/∂x)

I've been trying to play around with the equation and see how I could get that answer.
All of the partial derivatives I've done previously had equations that were equal to f(x,y) or such.
Can you see how the Professor gets the left side? It's the chain rule.
 
Yes, to take the second derivative of y, you should look at it as phi(x,y(x))

so partial in x with respect to first entry, plus that with respect to second entry, which requires the chain rule.
 

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