What are the equations for fission-based spacecraft propulsion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the equations and principles related to spacecraft propulsion using fission energy. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, practical applications, and historical context regarding fission-based propulsion systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation intended to describe how fission produces force, but others challenge its validity and suggest that it does not adequately represent the physics of thrust generation.
  • Another participant argues that the equation should account for the change in momentum of the propellant and the mass flow rate, indicating that the initial formulation is overly simplistic.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of energy produced by fission, with one participant noting that heat must be converted into thrust, which raises questions about the feasibility of using heated water in a vacuum.
  • Historical references are made to past projects like Project Rover, NERVA, and Timberwind, highlighting the development of nuclear fission propulsion systems in the mid-20th century.
  • Some participants express interest in the renewed exploration of nuclear propulsion for future missions, such as to Mars.
  • Additional historical context is provided regarding the capabilities of fission reactors used in past projects, including the types of fuel and energy outputs.
  • Books discussing these topics are mentioned, indicating a broader interest in the historical and theoretical aspects of nuclear propulsion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the initial equation or the best approach to modeling fission-based propulsion. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the principles of thrust generation and the practical applications of fission energy in spacecraft.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight limitations in the initial equation, such as the need for a more comprehensive understanding of momentum and mass flow rates. The conversation also reflects a dependency on historical examples and the challenges of applying theoretical concepts to practical scenarios.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in aerospace engineering, nuclear physics, and the historical development of propulsion technologies may find this discussion relevant.

Arjun Wasan
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Hello I'm working on a project to create spacecraft engines that use fission to produce thrust. I will be coming up with many equations and I wanted to have them checked. If you could review them and give me some feedback that would be great. Here is the first equation that describes how the fission produces force:

(em*ea)*sc=sca

where: em - mass of energy released
ea - acceleration of energy released
sc - mass of spacecraft
sca - acceleration of spacecraft
 
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Arjun Wasan said:
(em*ea)*sc=sca
The units of this equation do not work.

F(propellant) = F( spacecraft ) or ma(propellant) = ma ( spacecraft ).

(em*ea)/sc=sca would be more appropriate, but that's too simplistic. This is only an equivalence and does not describe how fission produces thrust, rather it only describes the acceleration of a spacecraft assuming some thrust from a fission system. In order to describe thrust, one must show the change in momentum of the propellant and the mass flow rate of the propellant.
 
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Fission produces energy in the form of heat. That heat is then used to heat water to create pressure which propels it through a pipe to turn a turbine and create electricity. But even then the electricity cannot create propulsion because it's a spacecraft in a vacuum. There's no medium to manipulate to move yourself in a vacuum.

The only way I can see this would work on a spacecraft is if you heated water into steam and shot it out the back of the ship. But that would be a significant waste of a very finite resource and would not produce much thrust.
 
Arjun Wasan said:
Hello I'm working on a project to create spacecraft engines that use fission to produce thrust. I will be coming up with many equations and I wanted to have them checked. If you could review them and give me some feedback that would be great. Here is the first equation that describes how the fission produces force:

(em*ea)*sc=sca

where: em - mass of energy released
ea - acceleration of energy released
sc - mass of spacecraft
sca - acceleration of spacecraft
its idea in general is very interesting but the equation does not demonstrate the rate of variation of the acceleration, that is in a celestial body approach its acceleration will have to assume the minimum possible, having this in mind you have to have control of the fission depending of the chemical compound you will use, but the idea is very good, continue to refine the calculations that you will go away, but the calculations can not take simplistic calculations.
 
Rockets powered by nuclear fission were under development in the USA from 1955 to 1972.
See Project Rover at Los Alamos.
And the NERVA and KIWI nuclear-powered rocket engines.
 
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Oh that's cool. I didn't know that was a thing. Just saw a video that they're starting to look into it again as an engine for going to mars.
 
The USAF also did work on nuclear propulsion under the Timberwind program, with Grumman as the contractor.
I believe that the program got far enough in the engineering stage that hydrogen flow tests through electrically heated core simulations were performed.
It was ended sometime in the late 1970s, after a test glitch iirc.
 
NERVA and KIWI used actual fission reactors producing up to 1,000 MW of heat.
The incoming fuel was liquid hydrogen or ammonia, and ultrahot hydrogen went out the nozzle.
 
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There is an interesting book, though a little dated - it was published in 1979. It discusses the Orion project among other things. One of the other things was how large a nuclear bomb would be needed to bring down the World Trade Towers - answer: about a kiloton. The name of the book is The Curve of Binding Energy.
 
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skeptic2 said:
The name of the book is The Curve of Binding Energy.
Very interesting book. John McPhee is author.

Another is Freeman Dyson's "Disturbing the Universe" . He's about the last of the Manhattan project physicists. A truly 'Great Man' IMHO with an unusual amount of practical common sense..
 

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