Fixing Rindler Coordinates when a=0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of Rindler coordinates when the acceleration parameter \( a \) approaches zero, specifically addressing the resulting indeterminate form \( T = \frac{0}{0} \). Participants explore potential resolutions to this issue, including Taylor expansions and limits, while considering the implications of transitioning to Minkowski coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Rindler coordinates become undefined when \( a = 0 \), suggesting that they reduce to Minkowski coordinates in this case.
  • One participant proposes using a Taylor expansion to analyze the expression \( T = \frac{\sinh(at)}{a} \) and seeks a simplification that avoids the \( 0/0 \) form.
  • Another participant points out that for \( n = 0 \) in the Taylor expansion, the expression simplifies to \( T = t \) when \( a = 0 \), while higher-order terms vanish.
  • There is a suggestion to take the limit as \( a \) approaches zero to resolve the indeterminate form, with a reference to L'Hôpital's rule as a potential method for evaluating the limit.
  • Some participants express concern about the complexity of infinite sums and the desire for a more elegant continuous function representation of the relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Rindler coordinates do not apply when \( a = 0 \) and that the expression simplifies to \( T = t \) in this limit. However, there is no consensus on the best way to express this transition without introducing discontinuities or indeterminate forms.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their approaches, particularly regarding the handling of infinite series and the need for careful consideration of limits and continuity in the context of mathematical expressions.

Anwyl
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TL;DR
Rindler coordinates result in T=0/0 when a=0. Is there a clean way to fix that?
Rindler coordinates are nice, but they fall apart when a=0, where ##T=\frac{sinh(at)}{a}=\frac{0}{0}##. Is there a good way to fix that?

Intuitively I'd want to do out the taylor expansion, divide by a, then collapse it back to... something...

$$T=\frac {\sinh(at)} {a}=\frac{ \sum_{n=0}^\infty {\frac {(at)^{2n+1}}{ (2n+1)!}}} {a} = \sum_{n=0}^\infty {\frac {a^{2n}t^{2n+1}} {(2n+1)!}} = ?$$

Is there any simplification of that taylor expansion to something sane that doesn't result in 0/0?

Is there another approach which might work better?
 
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Anwyl said:
Is there another approach which might work better?

If ##a = 0## there is no such thing as "Rindler coordinates"; you just have Minkowski coordinates, since you have objects at rest in the coordinates moving inertially (zero proper acceleration). That's what the 0/0 issue is really telling you.
 
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Anwyl said:
Intuitively I'd want to do out the taylor expansion, divide by a, then collapse it back to... something...

For ##n = 0## your expression with ##a = 0## is ##a^0 t^1 / 1! = t##. For ##n > 0## your expression gives zero if ##a = 0##. What does that tell you?
 
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Anwyl said:
Summary: Rindler coordinates result in T=0/0 when a=0. Is there a clean way to fix that?

Is there another approach which might work better?
Just take the limit as a goes to 0.
 
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PeterDonis said:
For ##n = 0## your expression with ##a = 0## is ##a^0 t^1 / 1! = t##. For ##n > 0## your expression gives zero if ##a = 0##. What does that tell you?
If ##a = 0## it gives ##T = t##, which is the desired result, since it should look just like flat Minkowski coordinates in that case.
I'm just hoping for a way of writing it which is clearly ##T = t## when ##a = 0## and ##T = \frac{sinh(at)}{a}## otherwise, without the gap in the domain of the function, or doing something like
##T = \begin{cases}t & a=0 \\ \frac{sinh(at)}{a} & a \neq 0\end{cases}##
 
Anwyl said:
If ##a = 0## it gives ##T = t##, which is the desired result, since it should look just like flat Minkowski coordinates in that case.

Exactly.

Anwyl said:
I'm just hoping for a way of writing it which is clearly #T = t## when ##a = 0## and ##T = \frac{sinh(at)}{a}## otherwise

I'm confused. Isn't that what you just agreed that your Taylor expansion shows?

If you want another way of looking at it, take the suggestion @Dale made and figure out what the limit of ##\frac{sinh(at)}{a}##, considered as a function of ##a##, is when ##a \rightarrow 0##. An easy way to evaluate the limit is L'Hopital's rule.
 
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PeterDonis said:
I'm confused. Isn't that what you just agreed that your Taylor expansion shows?

Yeah, I think I'm just trying to oversimplify the equation. It works fine with the sum there, but I'm always suspicious when working with infinite sums that I'll do something subtly wrong, and it feels like there should be some elegant continuous function there.
 
Anwyl said:
it feels like there should be some elegant continuous function there.
Like maybe the limit?
 
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