Flat galaxy rotation curves without dark matter

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of F = (GMm)/r^2 to calculate the mass needed to produce the flat rotational curve observed in the galaxy. The speaker has created an excel spreadsheet to explore this possibility and believes that current models overestimate the amount of mass needed and that dark matter is not necessary to explain the flat curve. However, the other person in the conversation suggests that the speaker should first understand how current models are made and find the specific error before proposing an alternative theory. The speaker then asks for someone with more experience in the field and knowledge of excel to review their work.
  • #1
Mike Stalkfleet
1
0
I need someone with more experience in the field who has knowledge of excel to check over my work.

Given the gravitational attraction between two bodies is F = (GMm)/r^2, and the centripetal force required to keep a body in orbit is F = (mv^2)/r, therefore

(mv^2)/r = (GMm)/r^2 therefore M=(v^2*r)/G

Therefore for any given star in the galaxy we can determine how much force is needed to keep it in orbit if we know its distance from the galactic core and its rotational velocity. And we can estimate the mass within the orbit of that body which is holding it in orbit. But F = (GMm)/r^2 describes the force between two bodies, such as the Earth and the Sun. But the galaxy does not resemble a solar system with one dominating mass with several orbiting bodies, but rather an interconnected mesh of stars, all equally massive, and all pulling on each other. Therefore using F = (GMm)/r^2 has lead to incorrect calculations about how much mass is needed to produce the flat rotational curve that we observe due to the inverse square law of gravity. This leads to an overestimation of the amount of mass needed in the galaxy to keep a star in orbit.
To explore this possibility I made an excel spreadsheet that uses several of the known characteristics of the milky way (flat rotation of 225km/s, ~100 billion solar masses, diameter of galactic bulge, diameter of the disk, etc) and constants (avg solar mass, c, etc) and makes a grid that represents the Milky Way and populates each grid based on normal probability distribution of stars (Actually two overlapping normal distributions, one for the bulge and one for the disk).
Then it can calculate the distance from a star of interest, to the rest of the points on the grid and estimate the gravitational attraction for each of the grid points.
With a distribution of matter in the galaxy that looks like this:
milkyway_crosssection.JPG

And with a flat galaxy rotation curve that looks like this:
rotation_curve.JPG

I can get a pretty good balance of the forces required to keep a star in orbit, vs the amount of force that I can compute from the distribution of stars.
gravity_balance.JPG

For example, our sun is at a distance of 27000 light years from the galactic core, and here is the gravity profile that I came up with. The spike below is the gravity from local stars pulling us out of orbit, and the spike above is the gravity from local stars pulling us towards the galactic core, and there is just a faint hint at where the galaxy center is. 80% of the gravitational contribution keeping us in orbit is is coming from the local disk stars, with only 20% coming from the galactic bulge. And a significant portion of stars are actually working to pull us away from the galactic core. But there is enough mass inside our orbit to overcome it.
sun_gravity.JPG

At 50000 light years from the galactic core, 90% of the gravity holding the star in orbit is coming from local disk stars, and only 10% from the galactic bulge.
gravity_50k.JPG

In this way the inverse square law works in our favor and reduces the amount of mass needed inside the orbit to keep it gravitationally bound. The effect gets stronger as you get further from the galactic core. So that at the very edge of the galaxy M=(v^2*r)/G overstates the amount of mass needed to keep a star in orbit by 70%, and dark matter was invented to make up for this supposed shortfall in mass. But I think that I have shown that you do not need to invoke dark matter to explain the flat galactic rotation curve.
overest_of_mass.JPG

Look over the spreadsheet and tell me what you think.
http://mike-stalkfleet.com/images/Gravity_in_Milky_Way_ver3.xls
 
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  • #2
Mike Stalkfleet said:
But I think that I have shown that you do not need to invoke dark matter to explain the flat galactic rotation curve.

I don't think scientists would have missed something so obvious as you've suggested here. If you haven't do so, I think you should first look up how the models using Newtonian gravity are actually made and then figure out exactly where the error is prior to coming up with an alternative. Just saying that the galaxy isn't a solar system is not sufficient justification. You need to explain exactly where and why current models fail. Until then, it's far more likely (and believable) that you yourself have made an error somewhere.

Mike Stalkfleet said:
I need someone with more experience in the field who has knowledge of excel to check over my work.

While I commend the effort you've put into this, it falls too far into the realm of a personal theory, which is not allowed on PF, and I'm afraid I have to lock this thread. If you have a specific question on how current models are made, feel free to make a new thread. And if you haven't already, please see PF Terms and Rules.
 

1. What are flat galaxy rotation curves?

Flat galaxy rotation curves refer to the characteristic shape of the velocity curve of stars and gas within a galaxy. This curve shows that the orbital velocity of stars and gas remains constant as distance from the center of the galaxy increases, rather than decreasing as expected based on the laws of gravity.

2. How does dark matter relate to flat galaxy rotation curves?

Dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that is thought to make up a large portion of the total mass of the universe. It is believed to play a significant role in the formation and evolution of galaxies, and is often invoked to explain the observed flat rotation curves of galaxies.

3. What is the evidence for flat galaxy rotation curves without dark matter?

Several studies have been conducted on different galaxies, including our own Milky Way, that have shown evidence of flat rotation curves without the need for dark matter. This evidence includes observations of the velocity curves of stars and gas, as well as simulations and models of galaxy formation and evolution.

4. How do scientists explain flat galaxy rotation curves without dark matter?

There are several proposed explanations for flat galaxy rotation curves without dark matter. These include modifications to the laws of gravity, such as modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND), as well as alternative theories of gravity, such as the entropic gravity theory. Some scientists also suggest that the observed flat rotation curves can be explained by the distribution of visible matter within galaxies.

5. What are the implications of flat galaxy rotation curves without dark matter?

If flat galaxy rotation curves can be explained without the need for dark matter, it would challenge our current understanding of the universe and the role of dark matter in galaxy formation. It could also have implications for our understanding of gravity and the laws that govern the behavior of matter on a large scale.

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