Floating, hydrostatic forces, average density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Archimedes' principle and the conditions under which objects, specifically iron cubes and ships, float or sink in water. Participants explore the qualitative differences in hydrostatic forces acting on different shapes and the implications of average density in relation to buoyancy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the shape of an object must allow it to displace more weight of water than its own weight in order to float.
  • Others argue that a key difference between a sinking object and a floating one is the ability of the latter to displace a larger volume of water.
  • A participant suggests that transforming a solid cube into a hollow cube could allow it to enclose more volume while maintaining the same mass, potentially enabling it to float.
  • Another participant expresses a desire for a qualitative understanding of why the hull shape of a boat results in a larger upward force compared to a solid cube.
  • There is a mention of the importance of the boat not leaking as a factor in its ability to float.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the principle that shape and volume displacement are crucial for buoyancy, but there remains uncertainty and exploration regarding the qualitative reasons behind these observations. Multiple competing views and explanations are present, and the discussion is not resolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express a need for a deeper qualitative understanding of hydrostatic forces and buoyancy, indicating that the discussion may involve assumptions about the nature of density and shape that are not fully articulated.

fog37
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Hello Forum,
I am revisiting Archimedes principle and its important consequences.
I am aware that a cube (homogeneous) made of iron will always sink in water regardless of its mass. If we changed the iron cube into a different shape (cone, cylinder, prism, parallelepiped, etc.), the object would still sink. However, there are some possible transformations that can morph the iron cube into something that is able to float. This is often explained by saying that the "average' density of the object has become lower than the water density due to the inclusion of areas of emptiness in the calculation of the total volume. That is a good explanation but it hides a lot of interesting details. Essentially, I would like to gain a more detailed and qualitative understanding of why an iron cube sinks while a ship of the same mass floats. Archimedes force is the vertical upward directed component of net force which derives from the vectorial sum of the all the hydrostatic elementary normal forces acting on the surface of the immersed object. From the perspective of the hydrostatic normal force distribution that water exerts, what is different in the hydrostatic force distribution for the iron cube and for the iron boat? The mass, hence the weight is the same. The change in shape essentially leads to a redistribution of the mass. A computer calculation can provide the accurate answer but does anyone have some insight in what happens when we transform a homogenous sinking object into something (like a basin) that can float?

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
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You just need its [under water] shape to be such that the body can displace more weight of water than its own weight, then it will float.
 
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One key difference between a boat and something that is almost a boat is that a boat does not leak.
 
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fog37 said:
I would like to gain a more detailed and qualitative understanding of why an iron cube sinks while a ship of the same mass floats.
Because the ship displaces more water.
 
fog37 said:
I am aware that a cube (homogeneous) made of iron will always sink in water regardless of its mass. If we changed the iron cube into a different shape (cone, cylinder, prism, parallelepiped, etc.), the object would still sink. However, there are some possible transformations that can morph the iron cube into something that is able to float.

Have you considered morphing a solid cube into a hollow cube enclosing much more volume with the same mass?
 
Thanks everyone.

I see how one shape (the boat shape) must displace more water than the cube because that larger displaced mass of water corresponds to a larger buoyancy force. But I would like to understand, from a qualitative point of view, why that happens for the hull shape. The elementary forces add up to a larger vertical push (Archimedes force)...
 
fog37 said:
But I would like to understand, from a qualitative point of view, why that happens for the hull shape. The elementary forces add up to a larger vertical push (Archimedes force)...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.5264.pdf
 

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