Fluid Dynamics - increasing pressure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of achieving sufficient pressure for solenoid valves in a water flow system, specifically focusing on reducing the height of the water column required to operate the valves. Participants explore various methods and theoretical considerations related to fluid dynamics, pressure, and flow control in a DIY project context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates that a 6" PVC pipe could theoretically reduce the height of the water column needed to achieve 3 PSI, but acknowledges that pressure is not linear and raises concerns about velocity and pressure drops.
  • Another participant argues that increasing the diameter of the pipe will not increase the pressure, as pressure is solely dependent on height, not area.
  • A suggestion is made to consider the pressure in the vessel feeding the drain pipe, proposing a system where the solenoid valve could control water flow into a tank with a float mechanism to manage the drain pipe height.
  • Another idea involves using a soft silicon pipe that could be squashed by high-pressure water, allowing for a mechanism to control flow based on pressure changes.
  • One participant questions the initial area calculation for the 1/2" inlet, prompting a review of the formula used for area calculation.
  • A proposal for using an eductor is introduced, suggesting that it could help manage the flow with low power requirements, provided it is positioned correctly to prevent auto-draining.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to effectively reduce the height of the water column needed for the solenoid valves. There is no consensus on a single solution, and multiple competing ideas are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of fluid dynamics, particularly regarding pressure and flow relationships, and the potential for syphoning issues in proposed solutions. There are also concerns about the accuracy of initial calculations regarding pipe area.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in DIY fluid systems, hobbyists working with solenoid valves, and those exploring fluid dynamics principles in practical applications may find this discussion relevant.

Scorp1us
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I am working on hobby project with almost no budget.
I bought some "nice" (cheap & simple) electronic solenoid valves for water flow. I've since discovered that they need 3PSI to open. Which is ok for the supply lines. But the drain line requires that as well. Now I either need a column of water of 3x27.7" (about 7 ft) or soe other way. The valves have a 1/2" inlet, which I calculate to be .78 sqin. I'm not interested in the flow but I need a way to reduce the required height. I thought about putting a fat section of pipe to increase the water held above it.
A 6" PVC pipe has a area of 28", divide this by .78 = 36. Divide the 3PSI height (83") by 36 = 2.3" So a 6x2.3" canister should do it.

However, I know that pressure is not linear and weird things happen like velocity increases and pressure drops.

What can I do to get the height of the column of water down to less than 12" using my 1/2" valve and gravity?
 
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I thought about putting a fat section of pipe to increase the water held above it.

That won't increase the pressure at all. The pressure depends only on the height not the diameter. The pressure experienced by a diver only depends on the depth not the area of the ocean/lake/pool he's diving in.

Is there some sort of return spring in the valve you could modify?
 
How much pressure is in the vessel feeding the output drain pipe? Suppose it was only 12" head of water... then the drain pipe would only need to be raised 12" to stop the flow... Perhaps you could arrange for the solenoid to allow high pressure water into another tank with a float that raises and lowers the drain pipe shutting off the flow. You might have an issue with syphoning but that's solvable.

or another approach..

Suppose the drain pipe was a soft silicon pipe that could be squashed. Perhaps you could arrange for the solenoid to squash the pipe by allowing high pressure water to flow into something resting on the pipe. If that "something" had a small hole in it then when the valve turned off the would flow out reducing the load on the silicon drain pipe allowing the pipe to open. Perhaps wasteful of water.

You need to hire Heath Robinson :-)
 
You also might want to check your calculation of the area of the 1/2" inlet.

Remember, the formula is A = pi * (D^2) / 4
 
An eductor?

http://www.amproduct.com/eductorPIC.jpg

The motive fluid is high Pressure water that you control using the solenoid. The educted fluid line comes from your drain.

Eductor is placed at a level higher than tank to prevent auto-draining. You'll need only a very low power eductor since all you are fighting is the low tank head.
 
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