Force & Work in Constant Magnetic Fields: Is it True?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether a constant magnetic field can do work on a particle, particularly in the context of cyclotron motion and related phenomena. Participants explore the implications of magnetic forces, work-energy principles, and specific examples like the Faraday disk and magnetron devices.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a constant magnetic field cannot do work on a particle because the magnetic force is always perpendicular to the particle's motion, resulting in zero work done.
  • Others propose that since the change in kinetic energy is zero, the work done must also be zero, although this reasoning is challenged by the placement of causal language.
  • A participant introduces the Faraday disk as an exception, suggesting that it operates under different principles in a magnetic field.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between force and displacement, with some participants clarifying that if the force and displacement are perpendicular, no work is done.
  • One participant questions whether deflection implies that work is being done, drawing parallels to devices like the magnetron in microwave ovens, which utilize similar principles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether deflection in a magnetic field constitutes work being done, with some maintaining that it does not, while others argue that it might. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of specific examples like the magnetron and Faraday disk.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions of work in the context of magnetic forces and the conditions under which work is considered to be done. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity in the application of the work-energy theorem.

cragar
Messages
2,546
Reaction score
3
My teacher told us that a constant magnetic field cannot do work on a particle , it can only deflect a particle , But we also talked about cyclotron motion and if the particle is moving around in a circle then it is experiencing a force . is this true ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes, it's experiencing a force. But since the force is perpendicular to the motion, there is no work done.
 
ok , thanks , could we say that since the change in kinetic energy is 0 the work is 0
 
Last edited:
Your placement of the word "since" seems to have the cause-and-effect backwards. It goes the other way.

Force and displacement are instantaneously perpendicular to each other, therefore the work done on the particle is zero. Then use the work-energy theorem, which says that the change in kinetic energy is equal to the net work done.
 
The exception to this is the Faraday disk, a conducting disk rotating in a constant uniform magnetic field. It is also called a homopolar generator. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homopolar_generator
The large one built at Australian National University could store over 500 MJ, and produce a dc unipolar pulse of millions of amps for hundreds of seconds. The disk is rotating in a constant magnetic field and the direction of rotation is perpendicular to the radial current in the disk.
Bob S
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Yes, it's experiencing a force. But since the force is perpendicular to the motion, there is no work done.
I am still not understanding why there is no work done in the direction of the force.
 
dW = F dot dx. If F and dx are perpendicular, no work.
 
oh i see because the cosine of 90 is 0 , thanks.
 
If particles are being deflected, then isn't work being done? The Cyclotron is similar to the Magnotron, which is the heart of every Microwave oven. My 1000watt microwave oven does a lot of work.
 
  • #10
Relay said:
If particles are being deflected, then isn't work being done? The Cyclotron is similar to the Magnotron, which is the heart of every Microwave oven. My 1000watt microwave oven does a lot of work.
The magnetron is an interesting microwave tube, developed just before and during WW II. See

http://physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/EM/brillouin_pr_60_385_41.pdf

In cylindrical geometry, electrons are accelerated radially outward from a hot filament by a large radial electric field, and execute cyclotron motion in a (nearly) uniform axial magnetic field. Geometry of the magnetron cavity causes the electrons to bunch, and to radiate microwave energy at the bunching frequency. So the electron energy (and work) comes from the electrons being accelerated by the radial electric field.

Bob S
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K