Foreigner trying to get into MIT

[Superposed_Cat]

Hi all, I am a south african, it's been my dream to get into MIT, what would I need to do to get in? and B what would I need to do to get a bursary(unrealistic I know but still). Do they care at all about second language?

 

[jtbell]

If you haven't seen this already:

http://mitadmissions.org/apply/international/howto

will probably answer some of your questions. As you can see, financial aid (what we say instead of "bursary" in the USA) should be the least of your worries.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

it is hence

(unrealistic I know but still)

Thanks, I have citizenship to both england and south africa. I heard it helps if you do something in your teens. Like build something fancy is that true? well do you have any tips as to what I can do to up my chances?

 

[TMFKAN64]

You need, excellent grades, excellent test scores, excellent recommendations and to generally be "special". (This last one is the tough one... there are many students who have the first three!)

How special? Well... take a look at http://web.mit.edu/registrar/stats/geo/index.html to get some idea of your odds. There is currently *one* undergraduate from South Africa, and 6 from the UK.

Good luck!

 

[lasymphonie]

Essays are really underrated - they're important! Make sure you can write something which says a lot about who you are.

I don't go to MIT but I go to a similarly competitive school as an international. Message me if you have an SAT above 2200 and I can help you out on other parts of your application - if you have a lower SAT score, you might get in, but given that English is your national language...

Grades/awards are NOT everything. I have some friends (one from South Africa even!) who had no significant academic prizes when they were accepted. And people with significant academic prizes often get rejected.

I had a friend who applied to similar places as me and got rejected everywhere. He applied with a silver medal at the IChO, a perfect score on our national exams, a few language and math prizes and participation in sports. He applied to Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT and was rejected everywhere except for Princeton, where he was waitlisted and then rejected. I applied with very similar credentials: an award at IPhO, a perfect score on our national exams, some language/writing/music prizes, and I got into Harvard, Yale and Princeton (did not apply to MIT). What was the difference? Given how similar our resumes were, I'm pretty sure it was the essays. I saw one of his and it was lackluster; I'm not a great writer but I'd sent mine to an ivy league student from my hometown and he'd helped me improve it a lot.

Lesson: Essays are important. Very important. If you have good grades and good SAT scores, they're what makes the difference. But you need good grades to be in the running in the first place. If you have the grades and the SATs, I'm happy to help a fellow international navigate the system. Message me.

On the topic of a second language, it's definitely not essential but it doesn't hurt. My Yale interviewer sent me his evaluation after I was admitted to encourage me, and something in it noted that I was basically fluent in French (fluent enough to conduct part of the interview in French) despite only being exposed to the language in a public high school. So yeah, it definitely does make a difference.

 

[jesse73]

Its a totally different ballgame for international students at a school like MIT. You should look into doing some type of math or science competition instead of the general advice you are getting which is more applicable to domestic applicants.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

Which math/science competitions would they value the most?

 

[jesse73]

International (insert branch of science / math) olympiad

like
http://www.imo-official.org/

 

[lasymphonie]

IMO, IPhO, IBO, IChO, maybe IOI. Also, if you can go to RSI or go to the Intel science competition's finals or something, that's also good.

 

[atyy]

MIT is not everything. Beyond a certain level, getting in is basically a matter of luck.

In general, choose your extracurricular activities to be things you are interested in and are accessible to you, rather than what you think MIT is going to value most.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I think you need to read the responses a little more carefully.

MIT enrolls, on average, one South African student every other year. That means you have to be the best student (or so close to that as to make little difference) in your entire country. You aren't going to get to that point by "building something fancy" or picking some competition at random.

I think you also have to consider the possibility that MIT is not for you, that you wouldn't be happy there, and you wouldn't fit in. Based on your posts here, I think that's a real possibility. The sort of student at MIT (and the sort the admissions department is looking for) would have already checked out MIT's website before asking questions here (which sent other people to MIT's web site).

Also, you want to get to very advanced topics when you have only the most superficial understanding of the basics. Not only is that an attitude that's not shared by many MIT students, it's an attitude that practically guarantees not making it through the Institute's curriculum. People have tried to point this out to you, and you've brushed it off - again, an attitude that is very different from that of a successful MIT student.

So work hard. Apply to MIT if you want. But I think you want to keep your options open.

 

[Mépris]

Again? Search through this sub-forum. This topic has been talked about numerous times, and at great length.

Quick advice:

1) don't get sucked into "chancing" or whatever nonsense college confidential is up to these days.

2) "something fancy"...er, do as Cal Newport says. Try a few things, pick one you like (you don't need to love it), and are good at, and dedicate yourself to it for at least six months. And evaluate things then. Work hard. Deliberate effort. Make what you do more efficient. Always improve. Get creative. Eventually, you will end up with "something fancy". If not, then you'll at least come out of it having learned a thing or two. Pick anything. Writing a web comic, making music, powerlifting, electronics, whatever.

3) you're English, you're eligible for home fees in the UK, and their excellent low interest loans. The odds of you getting into Oxbridge, UCL and the like are probably higher than the odds of you getting into ANY top 20 US college with financial aid.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

I'm good at physics. I'm 16 now so not near university. I've studyed calculus and linear algebra so as to start studying QM. Science is my passion.

 

[Mépris]

Then that makes you much more interesting than the average applicant.

/sarcasm

It's awesome that you're learning. I lacked the direction to do that at your age. But seriously: read through the MIT and admissions posts in this forum. You need more.

In general, for every other top school, your academics are fine as long as your grades and SAT scores are above their 75 percentile. (look up something called the CDS, or look for stats on their web pages)

Your essays and recommendations are incredibly important. MIT has a good guide on the latter on their website.

In terms of who they accept...then that's related to what I said about achieving stuff. Look into Newport's High School Super Star book. There, he talks about a kid who got into Stanford...he wrote a book on game programming, among other things. Another guy who got into Columbia was involved in some high profile non profit. A girl who went to Princeton, iirc, ended up working on curriculum development for multiple schools in her *state*.

Then you've got the athletes.

What do they all have in common? Impressive achievements. That's how it works with the top schools in the US. You got to push yourself hard in more than just academics.

Play music? DUH. Your single is played in every radio station in South Africa, and within a few months, it's getting a lot of attention in Europe? AWESOME. You study college math and physics? DUH. You co-authored a paper with somebody at a local university? AWESOME.

You get the idea.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Science is my passion.

For some reason, people seem to think that this is some magic phrase they can invoke that will somehow help them.

The word passion comes from the Latin patior, meaning to bear or suffer. That's what they are looking for - not just saying things.

I've studyed calculus and linear algebra so as to start studying QM.

On the 26th you asked where to learn linear algebra. Eight days later, you claim that you know it. Remember when I talked about "superficial"? This is an example of that. And this is not going to impress anyone.

 

[Shivam3013]

He could have been self-studying it rigorously from lang 15+ hours a day.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

People learn at different rates and I'm not trying to impress anyone, seriously. just background. I'm probably the least impressive person on this site.

I'm not saying every single section jus the majority. if you say you know c++ do you know the entire api?Plus I'm pretty isolated and have insominia so 8-2is school. I usually go to bed at round 3am and wake up at 5:30. I literally have nothing to do,all I have is internet and a crap laptop.

 

[Student100]

I'm not saying every single section jus the majority. if you say you know c++ do you know the entire api?Plus I'm pretty isolated and have insominia so 8-2is school. I usually go to bed at round 3am and wake up at 5:30. I literally have nothing to do,all I have is internet and a crap laptop.

My professor for C++ never claimed to know C++.

Fyi.

That's fine, you want to learn, you want to go to school. Don't pine all your hopes and dreams on MIT though. Get a visa, get into a decent undergrad program, then focus on going to grad school. You can always try to make yourself shine in UG to do graduate at MIT.

No one here can help you get into MIT, there is no magic formula. You can not say do X, Y, and Z, and then bam, you're in. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

Hence me referring to it as "unrealistic". I'm just checking to see what would be required.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

He could have been self-studying it rigorously from lang 15+ hours a day.

lang? what does that mean?

 

[Superposed_Cat]

My professor for C++ never claimed to know C++.

Fyi.

That's fine, you want to learn, you want to go to school. Don't pine all your hopes and dreams on MIT though. Get a visa, get into a decent undergrad program, then focus on going to grad school. You can always try to make yourself shine in UG to do graduate at MIT.

No one here can help you get into MIT, there is no magic formula. You can not say do X, Y, and Z, and then bam, you're in. It doesn't work that way.

Perhaps 'know' is the wrong word, perhaps 'have experiance'?

No one here can help you get into MIT, there is no magic formula. You can not say do X, Y, and Z, and then bam, you're in. It doesn't work that way.

Yes I meant 'tips' not some sequential set of instructions.

 

[Student100]

Perhaps 'know' is the wrong word, perhaps 'have experiance'?Yes I meant 'tips' not some sequential set of instructions.

There aren't really any tips to offer other than do you best, hope for the best. A tip like go do something extraordinary isn't really a tip, it's doesn't really provide you any information on what that is - because there isn't a cut and dry answer.

lang? what does that mean?

It's a very rigorous book.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

No, I use khanacademy and get practice questions from various websites.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

There aren't really any tips to offer other than do you best, hope for the best. A tip like go do something extraordinary isn't really a tip, it's doesn't really provide you any information on what that is - because there isn't a cut and dry answer.

Ja, thanks I was happy with the first couple of posts and the links. I really don't think there is anything else to contribute to this thread.

 

[jesse73]

The only actionable advice you got what to find someone who could help you get involved in an international math and or science olympiad. Nearly every international student I've met from Caltech or MIT did an olympiad.

Most of the olympiad sites have contact info for different countries.

 

[Seydlitz]

Then that makes you much more interesting than the average applicant.

/sarcasm

...

Play music? DUH. Your single is played in every radio station in South Africa, and within a few months, it's getting a lot of attention in Europe? AWESOME. You study college math and physics? DUH. You co-authored a paper with somebody at a local university? AWESOME.

You get the idea.

I'm sorry but I just can't resist this. I find your comment makes sense in that top schools tend to see the applicants' achievements and etc, but I do think your post is pretty harsh, especially the last part. I hope you realize that you are patronising the OP.

I saw you have posted several threads yourself asking for academic advise, and I don't think you might appreciate people talking down on you, using capslock and sarcasm to deliver a point.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Nearly every international student I've met from Caltech or MIT did an olympiad.

And none of the international members in my living group did.

 

[jesse73]

And none of the international members in my living group did.

That was my experience in one of the 2 aforementioned schools mostly IMO, some years have different yields for olympiad applicants since they are sought after.

If olympiads arent being used as a means for a foreign student to stand out then how exactly does an international student get into MIT ?

There are ~500 international students at MIT. How exactly did they stand out?

If you could give some actionable advice about what makes them stand out on paper because most international students won't be able to interview with an alum working as an EC in their country that would begin to be helpful. Assuming the goal is to be helpful and give advice that one can put to some use.

 

[Mépris]

I'm sorry but I just can't resist this. I find your comment makes sense in that top schools tend to see the applicants' achievements and etc, but I do think your post is pretty harsh, especially the last part. I hope you realize that you are patronising the OP.

I saw you have posted several threads yourself asking for academic advise, and I don't think you might appreciate people talking down on you, using capslock and sarcasm to deliver a point.

Meant to help. I've been in his spot before. I was quite neurotic about the whole thing.

It's harsh because the admissions process is harsh. MIT accepts 150 international students per year. Last I checked, that was about 3%.

And as Vanadium implied, no knows what the OP should do to get in. You talk to some people, and they're not sure how they did. You talk to some others, and it quickly makes sense why.

Just to put things into perspective for the OP: I know of somebody who went to Stanford, and that person published two books before. They weren't good books by any stretch, but getting published as a teenager and having people buy your books is a pretty big deal. Another kid I know went to Yale, and that person was heavily involved in politics to the point where he was elected in his hometown.

Somebody else said this before: "You could do all the "right" things and still not get in." It's very important to think about that.

Wanting to go to any arbitrary school, shouldn't be a goal of its own, in my opinion. If you're doing things, do them for the sake of improving yourself. If you go the other way, you'll get a tendency to view everything as "ticking boxes" and "jumping through hoops", and that's when things get more stressful than they should be.

Work hard, improve yourself, and let the chips fall where they may. Don't put all your money on one school, apply broadly. Plenty of good schools to choose from. By the way, OP, I saw someone on physicsgre.com who went to UCT for 4 years, and was accepted for PhDs at Chicago and Columbia.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

would I be hirable internationally if I got my phd from a south african university?

 

[Vanadium 50]

would I be hirable internationally if I got my phd from a south african university?

What has this to do with trying to get into MIT as an undergrad?

 

[Vanadium 50]

It's harsh because the admissions process is harsh. MIT accepts 150 international students per year. Last I checked, that was about 3%..

115 last year. Which means 37 of every 38 international students who applied did not get in.

Somebody else said this before: "You could do all the "right" things and still not get in." It's very important to think about that.

Wanting to go to any arbitrary school, shouldn't be a goal of its own, in my opinion. If you're doing things, do them for the sake of improving yourself. If you go the other way, you'll get a tendency to view everything as "ticking boxes" and "jumping through hoops", and that's when things get more stressful than they should be.

And MIT says those very things on its web site. (Which, frankly, should have been the OPs first stop). I know there are students who don't believe this, and it baffles me why they are applying. If they think the Institute is lying to them, why would they want to go to a place that is lying to them?

 

[Superposed_Cat]

I was aware of the admission rate when I started this thread. I had no delusions about getting in. I just thought that starting this thread wouldn't hurt.

 

[Shivam3013]

It didn't. But as stated above, you won't get responses like:
To get into MIT, do x first, then y etc. What we can do is, if you give us more information about your academics, predict to some degree of accuracy if you can get into a prestigious school. Only thing I can say, as a MIT student, is that get excellent grades, do well on standardized tests, have ECs and most of all, don't act superficial. And by the way, KhanAcademy is not a good resource to learn from. If you have learned directly from there, then you better relearn some algebra, geometry, trigonometry, precalculus and linear algebra soon.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

80% for science 77% for math 82% English 90% IT(we do Delphi) 70% Biology 50% afrikaans (second language, sounds like a throat infection)

if you give us more information about your academics

 

[Superposed_Cat]

I agree I could do better in science and math but I really suck at second language, do universities care?

 

[HayleySarg]

The best universities will, yes. You'll want to be just as good in English as the rest of the students are, at least, written English. Your assignments and lab reports will be expected in English, and while grammar isn't the core lesson to be learned in a lab report, if you're not capable of concisely and effectively writing, it will hurt you. Not to mention you'll be learning from English books which will require a high level of reading comprehension in English.My father got into MIT, and attended (he dropped out late into his 2nd year for a variety of rather dumb reasons).

He told me something along the lines once,

"You're a valedictorian, so is everyone else. You're athletic and the star of every club, so is everyone else. You could solve any problem, so can everyone else. Everything that made you special enough to get you there ceases to feel amazing. Suddenly your a very big fish in a pond full of even bigger fish, crammed tightly enough that you're uncomfortably certain you just might not belong there.

I didn't aim to go to MIT. I aimed to be the best I could be at what I loved [physics]. I didn't chase the requirements, though I certainly was aware of them. No, instead I worked to consistently push myself. Everyday a new and harder concept. I just loved the challenge. "

Generally speaking, if you're building yourself up specifically to attend MIT, you'll be disappointed. Don't focus on that nonsense. If you're passionate about the subject, as you say, you'd study it regardless of the name of the school. Anywhere you got in would be better than none. Keep that in your heart, set it aside for later, and focus on the now.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

I meant second language. Americans learn Spanish right? So do your universities care about it?

 

[HayleySarg]

Ah I wasn't aware English was your first language.

Eh to some extent. It's a highly marketable skill, but I'm not entirely sure how valued it is by universities. I would imagine it varies. They expect some understanding (some amount of courses out of HS) but not fluent, as a general rule.

I took 6 years of French, for example. Look at specific institutions requirements, and that will let you know just how much they care.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

Afrk is only spoken in SA and it's dying. The people who rule the country hate the afrikaaners because of apartheid. I can't imagine it being marketable.

 

[HayleySarg]

Well correct, you'd want to learn a major world language.

Spanish, French, German, Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese (in no particular order of importance).

 

[TMFKAN64]

80% for science 77% for math 82% English 90% IT(we do Delphi) 70% Biology 50% afrikaans

You are trolling, right?

Nothing is impossible. But I think I have a better chance of playing in the NBA than you have of getting into MIT as an undergrad. And I'm 5'6" tall. And 51 years old.

If you do apply, keep in mind that there is one question you have to answer. Why you? Why not one of the other students in South Africa with better grades and better test scores? Underline that "one"... because MIT admits one student from your country every four years. Why you and why this year?

 

[Shivam3013]

Unless you threaten the MIT admissions department, or improve your marks and be less superficial and vainglorious, I doubt your acceptance in any prestigious university.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

I would have lied about my marks if I was superficial. I reiterate, I had no delusions/expectations about getting in and I was happy with the first couple of responses. If I could I would have closed this thread ages ago, and I am not vain.

 

[HayleySarg]

That's not what was implied by superficial.

Instead, what was implied is that you're not seeing the depth of the material before jumping into the next conclusion. Not that you're vain or otherwise overly concerned with appearance. But rather that you aren't looking past the surface of the situation.

Study the maths, focus on improving your marks and becoming a well rounded young adult, and you'll find a place in a university somewhere.

 

[jesse73]

I don't get any particular pleasure in kicking you while you are down or namecalling you but you really should just work at getting into A university.

However these threads are read by others with different grades and for them I would suggest they get in contact with someone in an olympiad that they are interested in. If you do well you will get to meet people from your home country who have got into MIT or Caltech etc and you can get advice tailored to your home country and be part of a network of people who are well connected and experienced at getting into these schools. Dont bother asking in a forum on the internet where you are more likely to be given at best a morsel of advice and most likely be given information about domestic admissions which is different than international (a much higher acceptance rate domestically and more knowledge from admissions people about the US education system and how to compare students within it).

 

[Shivam3013]

You said you had studied up to and including linear algebra. You also said you were doing QM soon. Therefore, you should have learned CM already. Yet your marks scarcely support your claim. Sounds pretty superficial to me.

 

[jesse73]

You said you had studied up to and including linear algebra. You also said you were doing QM soon. Therefore, you should have learned CM already. Yet your marks scarcely support your claim. Sounds pretty superficial to me.

A less confrontational way of making your point would of been to frame it in terms of what he should do not what he is doing. You could just suggest he work at learning those topics at greater depth or practicing them until he has near perfect grades.

He should work at perfecting his grades and test scores and seek some type of mentor in his home country.

 

[Superposed_Cat]

No I am not learning CM nor have I nor did I ever say I had. Here physics and chem are one subject. I get average for chem and good marks for physics.

I don't mind people insulting me if what they are saying is fact. I.e. I'm fat, my mom's a slag ect. but I don't like people dissing me on opinion. especially if you don't know me.

Just a suggestion, but perhaps try creating something you're passionate about. Some sort of simulation or

Hence me wanting to learn c++, it's the fastest language I've heard of and seems the best for simulations.

Of course they care. Particularly elite universities. They will be asking questions like.

I long since gave up on the oversees universities, I just don't like the local ones because this country is so obsessed with engineering, nothing wrong with engineers of course but physics it's just amazing.

 

[HayleySarg]

Most of the people in here aren't "dissing you."

They're attempting to provide constructive criticism and advice.