Fourier analysis and the sinusoidal plane wave

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Fourier transform, its conventions, and its application to sinusoidal plane waves in the context of wave equations. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the Fourier transform, the representation of plane waves, and the implications of sign conventions in these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the correctness of the Fourier mode representation and the form of the sinusoidal plane wave, suggesting an alternative sign convention.
  • Another participant clarifies that the signs in the Fourier transformation are arbitrary and emphasizes the importance of adhering to conventions within specific fields.
  • There is a discussion about the direction of wave propagation as indicated by the phase constant in the plane wave equation.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between the Fourier transform and its inverse, noting that the first equation presented is typically referred to as the inverse Fourier transform.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the arbitrariness of signs in the Fourier transform and proposes a mathematical reasoning for their interchangeability.
  • Recommendations for books on Fourier analysis with applications in physics are shared among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the arbitrariness of signs in the Fourier transformation, but there is no consensus on the implications of these conventions for the representation of sinusoidal plane waves. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for sign conventions in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and conventions used in Fourier analysis, particularly concerning the normalization constants and the directionality of wave propagation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in Fourier analysis, wave mechanics, and the mathematical foundations of physics, particularly those exploring the nuances of Fourier transforms and their applications in various fields.

BacalhauGT
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hey

So Fourier transform is

##f(t) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(\omega) e^{i \omega t} d\omega##

with

##F(\omega) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(t) e^{-i \omega t} dt##

Question 1 - The Fourier mode for the continuous case is ## \frac{1}{2 \pi} F(\omega) e^{i \omega t}##, is it right?

So a function can be written as a superposition of Fourier modes.

Question 2 - Why does the sinusoidal plane wave is always considered in the form

##\phi(x,t) = A \exp [i (k x - \omega t)]## ?

I mean, Should it be ##\phi(x,t) = A \exp [i (kx + \omega t)]## ? Because this is the form of two dimensional Fourier mode for x and t.

So using this, it makes sense for me analysing the linear equations using a Fourier mode, because since it is linear, any function can be given by a sum of Fourier modes, so we can see what happens to one frequency and k.

Thank you
 
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All the signs and factors in front of the Fourier transformation are arbitrary, but it's good to stick to conventions of your field. You have the sign for the time-frequency FT opposite to what physicists are used to. I've seen this convention in some engineering textbook once. That said concerning question 1, it's correct.

Question 2 adresses the Fourier transform in time and space for the wave equation (setting the phase velocity of the waves to 1 for convenience)
$$(\partial_t^2-\partial_x^2) \phi(x,t)=0.$$
The plane wave you've given first is the one describing a wave moving in positive ##x##-direction, i.e., setting the phase constant, ##k x-\omega t=\text{const}## implies that
$$x=\frac{\omega}{k} t + \text{const}.$$
For the same reason your 2nd mode describes a wave moving in the negative ##x##-direction. A general wave is a superposition of both (and a superposition over ##\omega##).

Here, btw. you use the physicists' sign convention (i.e., a ##-## in front of time in your Fourier mode). Here you can write the solutions of the wave equation as
$$\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{\mathbb{R}} \mathrm{d} \omega \left \{A(\omega) \exp[-\mathrm{i} \omega (t-x)] + B(\omega) \exp[-\mathrm{i} \omega (t+x)] \right \},$$
where I used the wave equation to get ##k=\pm \omega##.

Since the wave equation is 2nd order in time you need to give two initial conditions to get a unique solution, i.e., you need to give as initial conditions
$$\phi(0,x)=\phi_0(x), \quad \dot{\phi}(0,x)=\psi_0(x).$$
You can think about, how to determine ##A(\omega)## and ##B(\omega)## given these initial conditions!
 
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vanhees71 said:
All the signs and factors in front of the Fourier transformation are arbitrary, but it's good to stick to conventions of your field. You have the sign for the time-frequency FT opposite to what physicists are used to. I've seen this convention in some engineering textbook once. That said concerning question 1, it's correct.

Question 2 adresses the Fourier transform in time and space for the wave equation (setting the phase velocity of the waves to 1 for convenience)
$$(\partial_t^2-\partial_x^2) \phi(x,t)=0.$$
The plane wave you've given first is the one describing a wave moving in positive ##x##-direction, i.e., setting the phase constant, ##k x-\omega t=\text{const}## implies that
$$x=\frac{\omega}{k} t + \text{const}.$$
For the same reason your 2nd mode describes a wave moving in the negative ##x##-direction. A general wave is a superposition of both (and a superposition over ##\omega##).

Here, btw. you use the physicists' sign convention (i.e., a ##-## in front of time in your Fourier mode). Here you can write the solutions of the wave equation as
$$\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{\mathbb{R}} \mathrm{d} \omega \left \{A(\omega) \exp[-\mathrm{i} \omega (t-x)] + B(\omega) \exp[-\mathrm{i} \omega (t+x)] \right \},$$
where I used the wave equation to get ##k=\pm \omega##.

Since the wave equation is 2nd order in time you need to give two initial conditions to get a unique solution, i.e., you need to give as initial conditions
$$\phi(0,x)=\phi_0(x), \quad \dot{\phi}(0,x)=\psi_0(x).$$
You can think about, how to determine ##A(\omega)## and ##B(\omega)## given these initial conditions!

Thank you. But please let me clarify one thing. I still don't get why the signs of the Fourier transformation are arbitrary. Can you explain me?

So Fourier transform is

##f(t) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(\omega) e^{i \omega t} d\omega## with ##F(\omega) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(t) e^{-i \omega t} dt##

can i write:

##f(t) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(\omega) e^{-i \omega t} d\omega## with ##F(\omega) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(t) e^{+i \omega t} dt##

Please check if that's the reason: This is because since the domain is ##-\infty## to ##\infty##, so integrating in ##\omega## covers the positive and negative ##\omega##. So making ##\omega \rightarrow -\omega'##:

##f(t) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(\omega) e^{i \omega t} d\omega = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{\infty}^{-\infty} F(-\omega') e^{i -\omega' t} - d\omega' =\frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(-\omega') e^{i -\omega' t} d\omega' = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F'(\omega') e^{i -\omega' t} d\omega'##

Is this correct?

So:

##f(t) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} F(\omega) e^{ \pm i \omega t} d\omega## with ##F(\omega) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(t) e^{\mp i \omega t} dt##
 
The signs are indeed arbitrary and so is the place where we put the 2pi normalization constant. That's indeed because we can just as easily use ##\omega'=-\omega##, and we can put the 2pi also in the other equation, or divide a ##\sqrt{2\pi}## over the 2 of them.

However, the first equation that you have called the Fourier transform is usually called the inverse Fourier transform. And the 2nd equation is usually called the Fourier transform. Together they form a Fourier transform pair.
 
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I like Serena said:
The signs are indeed arbitrary and so is the place where we put the 2pi normalization constant. That's indeed because we can just as easily use ##\omega'=-\omega##, and we can put the 2pi also in the other equation, or divide a ##\sqrt{2\pi}## over the 2 of them.

However, the first equation that you have called the Fourier transform is usually called the inverse Fourier transform. And the 2nd equation is usually called the Fourier transform. Together they form a Fourier transform pair.
thank you. It was a distraction
 
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btw, can anyone recommend me a book for Fourier analysis with applications in physics? thank you
 

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