Frame Dragging: Q&A for Time Travelers

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    Frame Frame dragging
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of frame dragging and its relation to time travel, particularly focusing on closed time-like curves (CTCs). Participants explore the underlying equations and concepts, including weak frame dragging and the implications of theoretical constructs like Tipler Cylinders.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • TheDoctor6000 expresses interest in understanding frame dragging and its equations, particularly in a simplified manner suitable for a younger audience.
  • Some participants note the difficulty of explaining equations to someone without a background in algebra, suggesting that identifying known components of the equations could facilitate understanding.
  • TheDoctor6000 seeks clarification on specific variables in the weak frame dragging equation, including the meaning of the Greek letter omega (ω) and the indices in the equation.
  • A participant explains that ω represents the frame-drag rate in radians per second and discusses angular momentum (J), providing an analogy related to figure skating to illustrate the concept.
  • TheDoctor6000 inquires about the relevance of Tipler Cylinders to the possibility of time travel, indicating a continued interest in theoretical models.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the explanations of frame dragging equations, and there are varying levels of understanding and interest in theoretical constructs related to time travel. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding due to the lack of prior exposure to algebra and complex equations. The discussion also reflects a dependency on definitions and interpretations of theoretical concepts.

TheDoctor6000
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Moderator's note: offshoot from https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-is-frame-dragging.762986/

I am trying to understand time travel and i can understand Tipler Cylinders and the cosmic string theory that assist the possibility of time travel but I was looking at Frame dragging because that’s how CTC (closed time like curves) work but those equations have not been taught to me yet. If you could make sense of them to me in a simple and basic way so that a year seven student could understand that would be a great help.
Thankyou
TheDoctor6000
 
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TheDoctor6000 said:
... those equations have not been taught to me yet. If you could make sense of them to me in a simple and basic way so that a year seven student could understand that would be a great help.
...

Most 7 year olds have not had algebra. Makes equations difficult to explain.

Pick an equation and list which parts you do understand. It is often easy to add missing information. Someone can also correct an error if there is one.
 
I will go with th weak fram dragging équation The things I don’t understand are,
What does the w mean
Am I dividing that answer to the w by top and bottom?
And what do those letters mean I know what the numbers are on the bottom of the fraction line (they are indices) but on the top I am confused.

It would be a great help if you could answer these
And sorry if my questions are tedious to answer. I am just very interested in the possibilities of time travel and how it works.
Thankyou
TheDoctor6000
 
TheDoctor6000 said:
...
Am I dividing that answer to the w by top and bottom?
And what do those letters mean I know what the numbers are on the bottom of the fraction line (they are indices) but on the top I am confused.
ω is the frame-drag rate in rad/s
ω is greek letter "omega". It is radians per second which equals 9.55 rpm. A lot of cars have a gauge that reads thousands of rpm. Multiply that number by around 100.

J is the angular momentum. I think it is the same as L if you disregard particle spin. Alina Zagitova does a beautiful demonstration of angular momentum in this video. at end of 2:57 she kicks and then pulls her arms and legs into her center in 2:58. In 2:59 she has arms out and leg fully extended for the landing and then hops and pulls everything in for the rotations in 3:00. They have a slow motion freeze frame image at 6:04. At 4:18 she is adds angular momentum by kicking in a diagonal camel spin. She then does a sit spin(4:22) and an I-spin(4:26) using that angular momentum. She gets a full 6 seconds of spin and chews up the ice because most of her mass is directly above the skate when her foot is above her head.
If you understand and can talk about figure skating you probably understand angular momentum good enough for any casual conversation or for science fiction writing. I do not have any experience traveling through time. My impression was that a person would already become molecular soup if they get close enough to a black hole for the difference to matter. If you hand wave spaghettification then you can hand wave the spin too. Just assume classical mechanics in science fiction unless it is convenient to do otherwise.

G is the gravitational constant.
 
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Thank you so much I appreciate all your help but what about Tipler Cylinders even if theoretical they could still aid in the possibility of time travel?
:smile:
 

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