Frequency and energy of EM radiation

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the relationship between energy and frequency in electromagnetic (EM) waves, specifically questioning whether the proportionality \(E \propto \nu\) can be derived from classical electromagnetism without invoking quantum mechanics (QM). Participants clarify that in classical EM, energy is proportional to the square of the amplitude of the electric field, independent of frequency. They conclude that while QM establishes a direct relationship between photon energy and frequency, classical EM does not support this proportionality, as energy can be adjusted by varying amplitude at any frequency.

PREREQUISITES
  • Classical Electromagnetism principles
  • Quantum Mechanics fundamentals
  • Understanding of the Planck–Einstein relation
  • Knowledge of wave properties and amplitude effects
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Planck–Einstein relation \(E = h \nu\) in detail
  • Explore classical electromagnetism's treatment of wave energy and amplitude
  • Investigate the implications of the relativistic Doppler effect on frequency and energy
  • Examine the role of photodetectors in measuring EM wave energy
USEFUL FOR

Physics students, educators, and researchers interested in the foundational concepts of electromagnetism and quantum mechanics, particularly those exploring the energy-frequency relationship in EM waves.

  • #31
ZapperZ said:
If one were to measure power, which is what I started with (i.e. the amount of energy measured in a unit time), then which wave will produce more energy for a fixed amplitude (i.e. they have the SAME average energy per cycle): the one that makes more complete cycle per unit time, or the one that makes less complete cycle per unit time?

Case 1: Let's say we have a 12 V battery, from witch we draw 1 Ampere for one second, zero Amperes for one second, 1 Ampere for one second ... and so on.

Now the RMS voltage of that current is ## \frac{12}{ \sqrt 2} ##

And the average power is 6 W.Case 2: Let's say we have a 12 V battery, from witch we draw 1 Ampere for two second, zero Amperes for two seconds, 1 Ampere for two seconds ... and so on.

The RMS voltage of that current is still ## \frac{12}{ \sqrt 2} ##

And the average power is still 6 W.

(The voltage varies between 0 and 12, that is the idea, for some reason I talked about amperage)
 
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  • #32
jartsa said:
Case 1: Let's say we have a 12 V battery, from witch we draw 1 Ampere for one second, zero Amperes for one second, 1 Ampere for one second ... and so on.

Now the RMS voltage of that current is ## \frac{12}{ \sqrt 2} ##

And the average power is 6 W.Case 2: Let's say we have a 12 V battery, from witch we draw 1 Ampere for two second, zero Amperes for two seconds, 1 Ampere for two seconds ... and so on.

The RMS voltage of that current is still ## \frac{12}{ \sqrt 2} ##

And the average power is still 6 W.

(The voltage varies between 0 and 12, that is the idea, for some reason I talked about amperage)

I don't think this is what we're talking about. The average value doesn't change, because this is the same value averaged over one cycle. But there is a difference if your measurement window measures 10 complete oscillations, or 20 complete oscillations. The device will measure the the total energy within that window. This is what I tried to emphasize in my first post here.

Zz.
 

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