Friends & I saw a zig-zagging star

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A group observed a star-like light zigzagging across the sky, moving faster than a plane and covering a significant portion of the skyline in a few minutes. Possible explanations discussed include a meteor breaking apart, a satellite reflecting sunlight, or even space debris reentering the atmosphere. The observers noted the movement was distinct and non-linear, which led to speculation about its nature, including the possibility of it being an alien spacecraft. Some participants suggested that atmospheric conditions or high-altitude maneuvers could create such visual effects. The conversation highlighted the challenges of interpreting unusual sightings in the sky and the importance of considering various explanations before jumping to conclusions.
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I was sitting with friends on the street, and we saw what appeared to be a star that was zigzagging. Of course, it wasn't a star. The zig-zagging wasn't in straight lines or anything, it was just moving, faster than any plane, it was very far away (just appeared as a pinpoint of light), and wasn't moving in a straight line. It moved across perhaps 1/3 of the visible skyline in a few minutes. We weren't drinking or on any drugs.
 
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If it was last night, it was a meteor.
 
Evo said:
If it was last night, it was a meteor.

Yup, there are many of possible explanations for why some meteors appear to travel in a jagged or zigzag path. Most likely it's because it was traveling in a spiral or the meteor path split up, remember we only have one point of view down here of the incoming object.

Do you by any chance live in North/central USA... or around there? There was a pretty spectacular midair explosion last night from a meteor which had broken apart, maybe you didn't see the explosion for some reason but instead saw one of the pieces which broke off, or maybe you saw the original meteor tumbling?
 
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I've never heard of a meteor taking several minutes to cross the sky. Also, our friend here seems to be in the wrong location to have seen the meteor reported last night.
 
Could have been the clouds moving around it. Clouds can make stars appear to move in sporadic patterns. When you look at venus at night, and the clouds are whipping by, it makes it look like it is moving around.
 
Few years ago. Since this is the case, my memory of the actual visual image in my mind is no longer like a movie. What I do remember is being with 3 friends, looking at a star-like light dot in the sky not moving linearly, having sporadic motion, seemingly without regard to inertia (i.e. it wouldn't stop then go another direction, it would just be going in different directions). We were starting at it constantly for the time we were observing it (perhaps 10 minutes) - so it's not like we stopping looking then looked up and went "oh hey it moved from where it was".

I do not see how clouds could've produced the illusion, but who knows.

It did not seem to be controlled intelligently based on our knowledge of the various reasons of why crafts would change direction, but I cannot think of any alternative explanation. Although, even if it was an alien spacecraft , I see no reason why it would be emitting photons, unless it had something to do with a byproduct of their propulsion system. Then again, it seems strange, if it was an alien spacecraft , why it would have been traveling so slowly (if it could reach Earth you'd expect something much more competent)
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
I've never heard of a meteor taking several minutes to cross the sky.
Could have be high altitude and grazing our atmosphere, or it could have been large and slow moving (hence the tumbling).

Also, our friend here seems to be in the wrong location to have seen the meteor reported last night.
How do you know that? He could have seen debris in the sky from many places... he could have even seen the original meteor prior to the fireball it created.
 
khz said:
Few years ago. Since this is the case, my memory of the actual visual image in my mind is no longer like a movie. What I do remember is being with 3 friends, looking at a star-like light dot in the sky not moving linearly, having sporadic motion, seemingly without regard to inertia (i.e. it wouldn't stop then go another direction, it would just be going in different directions). We were starting at it constantly for the time we were observing it.

Ohhh, I've seen these before. One time driving to New Brunswick on the TransCanada high way I looked out the car and saw a little speck of light moving around quite rapidly. It was day time mind you, couldn't have been a plane it changed directions too quickly and it would had to have been WAY too high (it only looked like a dot of light). I recall looking up an explanation and finding one but I can't seem to recall what it was exacty lol.
 
  • #10
zomgwtf said:
How do you know that? He could have seen debris in the sky from many places... he could have even seen the original meteor prior to the fireball it created.

Staff members can determine the location of a poster. In fact he was on the wrong side of the planet.
 
  • #11
khz, perhaps you could share your location and the [local] time that you saw this?
 
  • #12
Ivan Seeking said:
khz, perhaps you could share your location and the [local] time that you saw this?

3.5-4 years ago, Sydney, Australia. I cannot specify a date: even so, it's unlikely to be corroborated from other sources, this sighting required you to be actually staring at the night sky, it was very covert, but at the same time it wasn't hallucinatory as those who I was with saw it as well.
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking said:
Staff members can determine the location of a poster. In fact he was on the wrong side of the planet.
You could have just said you did an IP trace, kind of creeeeepy.
 
  • #14
zomgwtf said:
I recall looking up an explanation and finding one but I can't seem to recall what it was exacty lol.

Was it plausible? Did it require staring at the sun?
 
  • #15
zomgwtf said:
You could have just said you did an IP trace, kind of creeeeepy.

PF has satellites, drones and agents EVERYWHERE, mauahahaha
 
  • #16
khz, also, it would be helpful to know the direction of travel.
 
  • #17
khz said:
3.5-4 years ago, Sydney, Australia. I cannot specify a date: even so, it's unlikely to be corroborated from other sources, this sighting required you to be actually staring at the night sky, it was very covert, but at the same time it wasn't hallucinatory as those who I was with saw it as well.

Most likely, it seems to me, it was a satellite that appeared to be zigzagging due to the ideomotor effect.

Was the zigzagging subtle, or was the motion distinctive?
 
  • #18
khz said:
3.5-4 years ago, Sydney, Australia. I cannot specify a date: even so, it's unlikely to be corroborated from other sources, this sighting required you to be actually staring at the night sky, it was very covert, but at the same time it wasn't hallucinatory as those who I was with saw it as well.

I was going to suggest "Scheerer's phenomenon" but can't be it if multiple people saw it, as well you were looking at the night sky which was presumably dark. So that rules that out... unless you were all having the phenomenon happen at the same time :-p
Maybe it was a satellite... I'm pretty sure there's an phenomena associated with a 'zigzag' appearance of satellites.

EDIT: ++Ivan beat me to it and he got the name of the effect.
 
  • #19
khz said:
Was it plausible? Did it require staring at the sun?

Yeah, it was plausible, in fact you can see it yourself. I had forgot the name but in my last post here I referred to it: 'Scheerer's phenomenon'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon

It doesn't fit what you've described though I am quite certain what you saw was a satellite.

If you want to see the dot(s) I am talking about just look up at the day time sky :smile:. You might see many, I recall just seeing one but it's most likely just because I was focusing only on that particular cell, kinda creeped me out at the time.
 
  • #20
Greg Bernhardt said:
PF has satellites, drones and agents EVERYWHERE, mauahahaha

True. Greg, you just spilled some coffee on your shirt.
 
  • #21
Ivan Seeking said:
khz, also, it would be helpful to know the direction of travel.

Hmm.. I would say North, but then this is meaningless because the Earth is always spinning

Ivan Seeking said:
"Most likely, it seems to me, it was a satellite that appeared to be zigzagging due to the ideomotor effect.

Was the zigzagging subtle, or was the motion distinctive? "
.

It wasn't like when you stare at a star and it appears to be vibrating. It was very defined movement across the sky, non-linear. This is a 4 year old memory, but I also remember my friend's reactions which reconfirms it as a non-false memory that it actually was as non linear as I remember it.


I forgive you all for assigning a higher probability to it being a satellite than an alien spacecraft , because to accept the inverse you would be required to give unjust weighting to an anecdote of a memory. Although, (whilst I'm not saying I personally accept the satellite explanation), do satellites give off photons? If so, why?
 
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  • #22
khz said:
I forgive you all for assigning a higher probability to it being a satellite than an alien spacecraft , because to accept the inverse you would be required to give unjust weighting to an anecdote of a memory. Although, (whilst I'm not saying I personally accept the satellite explanation), do satellites give off photons? If so, why?

The reflect light from the sun of course. They are actually quite bright and they move relatively quickly through the sky. You can see them all the time if you actively watch the night sky.
 
  • #23
zomgwtf said:
The reflect light from the sun of course. They are actually quite bright and they move relatively quickly through the sky. You can see them all the time if you actively watch the night sky.

Ohhh of course.
 
  • #24
khz said:
Hmm.. I would say North, but then this is meaningless because the Earth is always spinning



It wasn't like when you stare at a star and it appears to be vibrating. It was very defined movement across the sky, non-linear. This is a 4 year old memory, but I also remember my friend's reactions which reconfirms it as a non-false memory that it actually was as non linear as I remember it.


I forgive you all for assigning a higher probability to it being a satellite than an alien spacecraft , because to accept the inverse you would be required to give unjust weighting to an anecdote of a memory. Although, (whilst I'm not saying I personally accept the satellite explanation), do satellites give off photons? If so, why?

Satellites can be seen reflecting light from the sun, even at night, due to their high altitude. They look like a star and appear to move relatively slowly; crossing the sky in a few minutes at most. Some do travel along a north-south trajectory.

There are plenty of explanations for strange things in the sky before looking to highly exotic explanations. High-altitude refueling operations are another one that can appear to be something very strange.
 
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  • #25
Ivan Seeking said:
There are plenty of explanations for strange things in the sky before looking to highly exotic explanations. High-altitude refueling operations are another one that can appear to be something very strange.

Yes of course. While I don't have access to a film like memory anymore, I do clearly remember spending a month proceeding the incident and deducing that "Okay, what I saw was this light that performed macro zig zags, of which I DID clearly remember THEN, and it was observed doing so for 10 minutes, and 3 other people apparantely saw it". What do I do with this? Am I epistemically sound in making a spacecraft conclusion within the confines of my own brain based on this data, or is this stretching it in your opinion?

I guess there could always be an explanation in potentia that you won't think of no matter how much you struggle with a sighting.
 
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  • #26
khz said:
Yes of course. While I don't have access to a film like memory anymore, I do clearly remember spending a month proceeding the incident and deducing that "Okay, what I saw was this light that performed macro zig zags, of which I DID clearly remember THEN, and it was observed doing so for 10 minutes, and 3 other people apparantely saw it". What do I do with this? Am I epistemically sound in making a spacecraft conclusion within the confines of my own brain based on this data, or is this stretching it in your opinion?

We can only offer potential explantions. Another possibility is that you saw space debris reentering the atmosphere. I don't know how pronounced any zigzagging would be, but objects can tumble, causing chaotic motions.

It also could have been a pilot flying at high altitude and performing maneuvers, say for example in a test aircraft.
 
  • #27
Ivan Seeking said:
We can only offer potential explantions. Another possibility is that you saw space debris reentering the atmosphere. I don't know how pronounced any zigzagging would be, but objects can tumble, causing chaotic motions.

It also could have been a pilot flying at high altitude and performing maneuvers, say for example in a test aircraft.

Those are some very good explanations. It couldn't have been a pilot, as I'd estimate it was 20x higher, up to 100-1000x higher than a commercial plane. It could've been space debris, a large piece, with pockets of gases that were exploding in a chain like reaction resulting from another piece of debris colliding with it, causing it to not only emit photons but change directions.
 
  • #28
khz said:
Those are some very good explanations. It couldn't have been a pilot, as I'd estimate it was 20x higher, up to 100-1000x higher than a commercial plane. It could've been space debris, a large piece, with pockets of gases that were exploding in a chain like reaction resulting from another piece of debris colliding with it, causing it to not only emit photons but change directions.

The trouble with altitude is that one cannot judge against a night sky. A low altitude, dim light, might appear the same as a bright light at a high altitude. The only way to know is if a reference can be used; say for example if a commercial jet crosses the path of the object and obscures the view momentarily. Also, some military jets can go to very high altitudes; far above commercial routes.
 
  • #29
I have missed out one detail. This sighting was straight up, or off to a <10 degree angle. Wouldn't this invalidate the pilot explanation(no sound)?

I'm still fully open to the chain-exploding space junk explanation as plausible.
 
  • #30
I feel like you've come here with the preconceived nothion that you've seen some unexplainable by natural reasons UFO.
 
  • #31
I don't get that impression from him at all zomgwtf. It just that when you see something so out of place, it really is exciting, and often scary. In other words, the image is going to stay with you...for your life time.

I have been a sky watcher, most of my life. Many things can be explained away, but their is always a few that deify any explanation. One thing to keep in mind, that Unidentified Flying Objects{UFO}, simply means we don't know what they are. Not that they come from another planet.
 
  • #32
khz said:
...faster than any plane, it was very far away (just appeared as a pinpoint of light)...
While not necessarily germane to the issue, the above mistake is made in the vast majority of night light sighting reports I've seen and I think it is important to correct it. The human vision system is not capable of judging the distance to a point source of light that is more than a few feet away without other references to use to determine distance. A Christmas tree light 100' away and a star 100 light years away would be virtually indistinguishable if they were the same color/brightness.

...And as distance can't be estimated, neither can speed (only angular speed).
 
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  • #33
zomgwtf said:
I feel like you've come here with the preconceived nothion that you've seen some unexplainable by natural reasons UFO.

I'm not judging anyone's motives or beliefs, but even if true, that's okay. Our job is to present the best information available.
 
  • #34
zomgwtf said:
I feel like you've come here with the preconceived nothion that you've seen some unexplainable by natural reasons UFO.

Based on which post? I feel I've been open to every suggestion thus far. I was only critical of the pilot explanation because I thought you'd hear a plane if it was pretty much above your head.

I'm fully open to the explanatory model of a large piece of space debris with pockets of gas exploding in a chain reaction. That seems to fit the data sufficiently.

If it seemed I was teetering towards a spacecraft explanation, that's only because I've been battling with the sighting for over 3 years in my head and couldn't come up with any explanations until talking to you guys. A natural human response to perplexion I guess.
 
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  • #35
Some other possibilities might include, an internally lit blimp or balloon, or a candle lantern:

aboutimg.jpg

http://www.joylanterns.com/

Objects drifting in the wind can follow highly irregular paths.
 
  • #36
It could also have been a radio-controlled aircraft. If it was electric you probably wouldn't hear it. They can ping around the sky in pretty much any way. And from a distance it would be impossible to tell what it was.

With the right lighting scheeme it could resemble your UFO.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/135/82889414.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6039/65631939.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5258/3457825150d7b98593f6.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4678/3312028634feaced6d99o.jpg


Here's a video of rc heli night flying (not a very good one sorry) At a large enough distance though it would just be a blob of light zig-zagging through the sky. They can get really high too.
 
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  • #37
khz said:
3.5-4 years ago, Sydney, Australia. I cannot specify a date: even so, it's unlikely to be corroborated from other sources, this sighting required you to be actually staring at the night sky, it was very covert, but at the same time it wasn't hallucinatory as those who I was with saw it as well.

I'm from Minnesota and on July 4, 2006 around 11:00 pm to 12:00 am I saw the exact same thing the poster described. My father and I were star gazing after returning home from watching fireworks (it was a very clear night and we live out in the country so there were no other distractions). We saw what appeared to be just another star or satellite; however this one was moving in a continuous zig-zag pattern across the sky. It struck me as odd because I had never seen anything like it before and tried to brush it off. I suppose it could have been an out of control meteor but for some reason I highly doubt that.
 
  • #38
Do meteors ever spin rapidly when moving through the sky?
 
  • #39
I also saw (looked like) a point (with) lights high up making what looked like a type of zig-zag path. Some of the path was more box type pattern, then zig-zag and took off in straight line further than it had been going on an irregular.
Date,7-10-10, time, aprox. 9pm midtown manhattan, clear night with city haze. One planet visible, large, some smaller pol. Could see birds flying through light given off by tall buildings. This was viewed from top a 14 fl building.







I was not intoxicated however I think what ever was flying that point of light may have been or it could have been a hijack with a struggle at the controls and then off into deep space for a joy ride.

I have no idea what it was. But I see this post and thought I would add that I saw this. I think.
 
  • #40
I hope you don't mind if I try to gather all of the details in one location:

  1. Relative apparent magnitude matching that of a star
  2. Appearing directly overhead (or close to)
  3. Crossing the sky in a "few" minutes
  4. Appeared to follow a non-linear path with erratic movements

Given the "zig-zag" maneuver, we could probably eliminate a " spacecraft " of terrestrial or extraterrestrial origin. This would be the least fuel efficient way in which to traverse a high-altitude path. If it were so high as to be out of the atmosphere, then control surfaces wouldn't be helpful, and all "zigs" and "zags" would be accomplished through the expenditure of fuel.

It's difficult to take someone's personal judgement of the passage of time. Humans often express important events as happening in "slow-motion." This is a common experience and the reserves is true, also: when engrossed in repetitive work, we see that time "flies."

The contents of a time period influence duration estimates; a time period is judged longer if it is intense, complex, and segmented. Some evidence suggests that a filled time period is perceived as longer than an empty time period...
(http://www.skidmore.edu/~hfoley/Time.htm)

Lastly, the ideomotor effect has been the bane of many observers, often ruining experiments, or invalidating observations. While, it is impossible to say that it was actually you that was moving, it does cast some degree of doubt (even if it is a small degree).

My guess? A bird illuminated from the ground (i.e. bright white belly reflecting more than dark wings) or possibly a satellite.
 
  • #41
Fine, let me think about this. I have to go somewhere and will answer when I get back. Thanks.
 
  • #42
Sounds to me as if you were observing a satellite but were also experiencing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsaccade" .
 
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  • #43
Maybe a satellite trying to achieve a higher orbit, hitting the propulsion away from earth, then falling back to earth, and so on, until they got it right?
 
  • #44
jreelawg said:
Maybe a satellite trying to achieve a higher orbit, hitting the propulsion away from earth, then falling back to earth, and so on, until they got it right?

Well if that is how satellites are designed to operate than perhaps that is what I had the opportunity to watch, because when I first noticed it my thought was, neat a satellite! That is until it began to shoot about.
My dear father was an aerospace engineer and he taught us at an early age how to spot a satellite.
 
  • #45
jreelawg said:
Maybe a satellite trying to achieve a higher orbit, hitting the propulsion away from earth, then falling back to earth, and so on, until they got it right?


Orbit degradation happens much slower if it's not catastrophic. That is to say: if it's an orbit decaying so fast as to require repeated thruster fire, then it's likely that it would've resulted in a destroyed satellite. The amount of an adjustment that would be visible from Earth would have to be tremendous. Think ray length, delta theta, and arc length.
 
  • #46
jreelawg said:
Maybe a satellite trying to achieve a higher orbit, hitting the propulsion away from earth, then falling back to earth, and so on, until they got it right?

I don't think so.

First, at 400,000 ft, orbital velocity is 17,500 mph (28,200 km/hr), yet to the naked eye satellites crawl across the sky. Second, any appreciable jerking around would involve delta-V of at least 10,000 km/hr, and satellites simply don't have anywhere near that capability. Third, even if they did, it would involve something as large as a third stage. Fourth, even if they did, it would take a a good amount of time, say an eighth of an orbit and twelve minutes to effect the kind of delta-V you believe you saw occur in a few seconds.

So, I don't think so.
 
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  • #47
OMG i just saw a fast moving blinking star around 1:00AM in the morning GMT+ 8:00 JUST NOW! here in the Philippines moving from North West to the South East from the top of our building, just right after i have finished watching 2012 movie on HBO.. i was just about to go to sleep and i looked outside the windows looking to the west, i was looknig at the moon with the clouds and all, and saw a Still star blinking steadily with kinda redish and blue color, and then ANOTHER one just comes by from north west to south east "FAST" with a slight Zig-Zag movement also colored redish blue and everytime it moves it blinks with slighly zig-zag moves.. and the problem is I am the only one that saw it because my mom, dad and my brother was already sleeping... and I am totally sure its not a plane, it passed by just took 2 mins and it was already over the other side of south east, and i have saw Planes and Jet Planes that cross from north west side to south east side at about 10 mins, but this Blinking "STAR" move from North West to South East Side in just about 2 minutes! it passed over the clouds and it was gone.. on the East Side already... I've never seen a plane that crossed the sky that FAST! After i saw it i just typed "just saw a Star moving fast in a zigzag pattern" on google, and got to this forum, and i registered just for the sake of reporting this! I SWEAR TO GOD this aint nothing like a plane! and I am 24 Yrs old , i never actually believed in UFO's until i saw it with my own EYES! could anyone from the US identify this Unidentified Flying Object? This was my first time to actually Encounter and saw it! bcoz most of the times i look at the sky its cloudy, or even not noticing it because I am doing a lot of things, but this time... it was really weird to see such thing! (and no, i am not on any drugs, i don't drink, and hell i don't even smoke)
 
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  • #48
I too have seen the stars zig zag. Multiple instances. Usually the star appears for about a minute in its trajectory across the sky. It always occurs from my observances, in the direction straight up from the ground. I have seen variant speed, and many instant directional changes. I have seen the star like object also change brightness. Lastly I have also seen 3 stars form a triangular pattern without first having been in one.
 
  • #49
Dickies said:
OMG i just saw a fast moving blinking star around 1:00AM in the morning GMT+ 8:00 JUST NOW! here in the Philippines moving from North West to the South East from the top of our building, just right after i have finished watching 2012 movie on HBO.. i was just about to go to sleep and i looked outside the windows looking to the west, i was looknig at the moon with the clouds and all, and saw a Still star blinking steadily with kinda redish and blue color, and then ANOTHER one just comes by from north west to south east "FAST" with a slight Zig-Zag movement also colored redish blue and everytime it moves it blinks with slighly zig-zag moves.. and the problem is I am the only one that saw it because my mom, dad and my brother was already sleeping... and I am totally sure its not a plane, it passed by just took 2 mins and it was already over the other side of south east, and i have saw Planes and Jet Planes that cross from north west side to south east side at about 10 mins, but this Blinking "STAR" move from North West to South East Side in just about 2 minutes! it passed over the clouds and it was gone.. on the East Side already... I've never seen a plane that crossed the sky that FAST! After i saw it i just typed "just saw a Star moving fast in a zigzag pattern" on google, and got to this forum, and i registered just for the sake of reporting this! I SWEAR TO GOD this aint nothing like a plane! and I am 24 Yrs old , i never actually believed in UFO's until i saw it with my own EYES! could anyone from the US identify this Unidentified Flying Object? This was my first time to actually Encounter and saw it! bcoz most of the times i look at the sky its cloudy, or even not noticing it because I am doing a lot of things, but this time... it was really weird to see such thing! (and no, i am not on any drugs, i don't drink, and hell i don't even smoke)

Maybe it was a bird reflecting lights of various sources from the ground. the relatively low altitude would allow it to have the appearance of moving quickly across the sky And, as we all know, birds can never seem to decide in what direction to fly.

ziggy star said:
I too have seen the stars zig zag. Multiple instances. Usually the star appears for about a minute in its trajectory across the sky. It always occurs from my observances, in the direction straight up from the ground. I have seen variant speed, and many instant directional changes. I have seen the star like object also change brightness. Lastly I have also seen 3 stars form a triangular pattern without first having been in one.

Microsaccadic eye movements would be best to explain your observation. As far as there starts forming a triangular pattern; well, obviously they were stars. Could be planes. I'm not far from Pease International Trade Port (which used to be an Air Force base) and they still fly fighters and refueling planes out of there for Trans-Atlantic operations. Planes routinely launch separately and then gather in formation.
 
  • #50
I saw this back when I was a teen around 1967 in summer in L.A., I was in the backyard of a friend's home along with about 10 other people at night. A formation of what at first appeared to be 5 or 6 stars were moving fast and low along the northern horizon when the 'stars' suddenly stopped and changed direction and zig-zagged once and zoomed off into the opposite direction they had been traveling. No one said a word for a few minutes and then we tried to nervously laugh it off but the rest of the evening there was a tenseness in the air. I never forgot it and never could figure out what we saw that summer night all these years ago. we never saw it again but every once in a while one of my buddies will bring it up and laugh about it.
 

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