From Feynman diagrams to potential

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on deriving the potential V(r_1, r_2) from the amplitude S_{fi} as presented in J.D. Bjorken's "Relativistic Quantum Mechanics." The potential is expressed as V(r_1, r_2) = (f²/μ²)(1 - P_{ex})(τ₁·τ₂)(σ₁·∇₁)(σ₂·∇₁)(e^{-μ|r₁ - r₂|}/|r₁ - r₂|). The participants emphasize the importance of taking the non-relativistic limit of the matrix element Mfi and applying the Fourier transform to obtain the potential. They also discuss the relevance of the Foldy-Wouthuysen transformation and the 'big-small' components non-relativistic limit for simplifying the expressions involved.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of relativistic quantum mechanics concepts.
  • Familiarity with Fourier transforms in quantum field theory.
  • Knowledge of the Foldy-Wouthuysen transformation technique.
  • Proficiency in manipulating Dirac spinors and matrix elements.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Foldy-Wouthuysen transformation in detail.
  • Learn about the derivation of Yukawa potential from propagators.
  • Explore the application of Fourier transforms in quantum mechanics.
  • Investigate the role of conservation laws in quantum scattering processes.
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This discussion is beneficial for physicists, particularly those specializing in quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, as well as students seeking to deepen their understanding of potential derivation from scattering amplitudes.

Thor Shen
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I met a problem when I read the textbook "Relativistic Quantum Mechanics" by J.D.Bjorken. He said we can get the potential
V(r_1,r_2)=\frac{f^{2}}{\mu^{2}}(1-P_{ex})(\tau_1\cdot\tau_2)(\sigma_1\cdot\nabla_1)(\sigma_2\cdot\nabla_1)\frac{e^{-\mu|r_1-r_{2}|}}{|r_1-r_{2}|}
(10.51)
from the amplitude
S_{fi}=\frac{(-ig_0)^2M^2}{(2\pi)^2\sqrt{E_1E_2E&#039;_1E&#039;_2}}(2\pi)^4\delta^4(p_1+p_2-p&#039;_1-p&#039;_2){[\chi^{+}_1\bar{u}(p&#039;_1)i\gamma^5\tau u(p_1)\chi_1]\frac{i}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}\cdot[\chi^{+}_2\bar{u}(p&#039;_2)i\gamma^5\tau u(p_2)\chi_2]<br /> -[\chi^{+}_2\bar{u}(p&#039;_2)i\gamma^5\tau u(p_1)\chi_1]\frac{i}{(p&#039;_2-p_1)^2-\mu^2}\cdot[\chi^{+}_1\bar{u}(p&#039;_1)i\gamma^5\tau u(p_2)\chi_2]}
(10.45)

I can get the formula 10.50
\bar{u}(p&#039;_1,s_1)\gamma^5 u(p_1,s_1)=u^{+}(s&#039;_1)\frac{\sigma\cdot(p_1-p&#039;_1)}{2M}u(s_1)
but I can't get the 10.51, please give me an idea or suggestion, or any information, thank you!
 
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The basic idea is to take the non relativistic limit of the matrix element Mfi,the Fourier transform of the corresponding matrix element will give you the potential.you also have to write the four component spinor u in terms of two component spinor like ( x11.p/2m)x1)
 
andrien said:
The basic idea is to take the non relativistic limit of the matrix element Mfi,the Fourier transform of the corresponding matrix element will give you the potential.you also have to write the four component spinor u in terms of two component spinors like ( x11.p/2m)x1)

Thank you for your advice. Actually, I know the exponential term (Yukawa potential \frac{e^{-\mu r}}{r}) come from the Fourier transform of the propagator \frac{1}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}. But I can understand how to get the term (\sigma_1\cdot\nabla_1)(\sigma_2\cdot\nabla_1). I know there are two methods to transform the relativistic potential to non-relativistic one.
One is Foldy-Wouthuysen transform which need the complete Hamilton in Chapter 4, the other is 'big-small' components nonrelativistic limit in Chapter 1. I try to use the latter one to simplify the 10.51 and get the matrix element Mfi
[\chi^+_1\bar{u}(p&#039;_1)i\gamma^5\tau u_1(p_1)\chi_1]\frac{i}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}\cdot[\chi^+_2\bar{u}(p&#039;_2)i\gamma^5\tau u_1(p_2)\chi_2]
=(\tau_1\cdot\tau_2)\chi^+_1 \frac{\sigma_1\cdot(p_1-p&#039;_1)}{2m}\chi_1<br /> \chi^+_2 \frac{\sigma_2\cdot(p_2-p&#039;_2)}{2m}\chi_2\frac{-1}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}
Before Fourier transform, how to deal with the \chi
 
Last edited:
Yes,this is what I have said you to do.Those \chi are not problem because they are spinors like (1 0) or (0 1),so you can forget them for the moment.you have to Fourier transform
(\tau_1\cdot\tau_2) \frac{\sigma_1\cdot(p_1-p&#039;_1)}{2m} \frac{\sigma_2\cdot(p_2-p&#039;_2)}{2m}\frac{-1}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}
 
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andrien said:
Yes,this is what I have said you to do.Those \chi are not problem because they are spinors like (1 0) or (0 1),so you can forget them for the moment.you have to Fourier transform
(\tau_1\cdot\tau_2) \frac{\sigma_1\cdot(p_1-p&#039;_1)}{2m} \frac{\sigma_2\cdot(p_2-p&#039;_2)}{2m}\frac{-1}{(p&#039;_1-p_1)^2-\mu^2}

if we define the \vec{p}&#039;_1-\vec{p}_1=\vec{p}and \vec{r}_1-\vec{r}_2=\vec{r}
then
\int^{\infty}_{-\infty}d^3p\frac{1}{\vec{p}^2+\mu^2}e^{-i\vec{p}\cdot\vec{r}}
=\int^{2\pi}_{0}d\phi\int^{1}_{-1}dcos\theta\int^{\infty}_{0}dp\frac{p^2}{p^2+\mu^2}e^{-ipcos\vartheta r}
=4\pi^2\frac{e^{-\mu r}}{r}
so,
\sigma_1\cdot(p_1-p&#039;_1)and\sigma_2\cdot(p_2-p&#039;_2) don't involved in integration, instead of being the operator p=-i\hbar \nabla. Although, the p_2-p&#039;_2 is replaced by p_1-p&#039;_1 for the delta funtion. But the formula of the integrate should be
(\tau_1\cdot\tau_2) \sigma_1\cdot(\nabla_1-\nabla&#039;_1) \sigma_2\cdot(\nabla_1-\nabla&#039;_1) \frac{e^{-\mu|r_1-r_2|}}{|r_1-r_2|}
 
Hey,sorry for being late but the point is that you have to take the conservation principle also into account from p1+p2=p1'+p2' which gives p1-p1'=p2'-p2=q say,when you put it into your expression it only depends on q,now you have to just take the Fourier transform with respect to q and the answer falls in it place.
 

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