Full solution for the simple pendulum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the full solution for the simple pendulum described by the differential equation θ''+(g/l)sin(θ)=0, specifically without using the small angle approximation sin(θ)=θ. Participants explore various methods and resources related to solving this ordinary differential equation (ODE).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses curiosity about the full solution of the ODE without simplifications.
  • Another participant mentions elliptic integrals as a key concept related to the solution.
  • A participant shares their experience of searching for resources and finding references to Jacobi elliptic functions but struggles with understanding the derivation and obtaining a numerical solution.
  • It is noted that the full solution of the ODE cannot be expressed in elementary functions, with a reference to a Wikipedia page for further information.
  • One participant suggests a method involving multiplying by θ̇ and integrating to derive a relationship between dt and dθ.
  • Another participant proposes starting from conservation of energy to derive a first-order ODE directly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a specific method for solving the ODE, and multiple approaches are presented without agreement on their effectiveness or completeness.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate limitations in available resources and understanding of the derivation process, as well as the complexity of the solution involving elliptic functions.

tataratat
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Having recently completed a session on the simple pendulum in physics, I was curious as to what the solution to θ''+(g/l)sin(θ)=0 for θ(t) was sans the sin(θ)=θ simplification.
 
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What have you done to satisfy your curiosity?
 
Elliptic integral is the key word.
 
voko, prior to posting I had essentially spent about an hour or so looking through various articles, lecture notes,et c., and hadn't run into anything involving a full solution of that ODE. I did check Wolfram Alpha which pointed me in the direction of the Jacobi elliptic functions, however that did not readily lend itself to understanding the derivation, or finding a numerical solution. I looked under functions.wolfram.com for the Jacobi Amplitude function, and wasn't able to find what I was looking for
 
The full solution of that ODE is not expressible in elementary functions. Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_(mathematics )
 
Last edited by a moderator:
θ''+(g/l)sin(θ)=0
Multiply [tex]\theta^.[/tex] to make [tex]{{\theta^.}^2}^.[/tex], integrate and then take square root to get [tex]\frac{dt}{d\theta}[/tex]
 
sweet springs said:
θ''+(g/l)sin(θ)=0
Multiply [tex]\theta^.[/tex] to make [tex]{{\theta^.}^2}^.[/tex], integrate and then take square root to get [tex]\frac{dt}{d\theta}[/tex]

Or just start with conservation of energy and get the first-order ODE directly.
 

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