Gage Pressure, Absolute Pressure - Gage in Different Environment Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of gage pressure in a tank when the gage is placed in a chamber with reduced air pressure. Participants explore the relationship between absolute pressure, gage pressure, and atmospheric pressure, particularly in the context of a vacuum environment.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The initial problem states that a gage connected to a tank shows a pressure of 42 psi above atmospheric pressure, and participants are tasked with determining the new gage reading when the atmospheric pressure is altered.
  • One participant calculates the absolute pressure as 56.696 psia and attempts to derive the new gage pressure but arrives at a value of 44.417 psi, questioning the validity of their approach.
  • Another participant suggests that the initial calculation of 44.417 psi might be correct, implying that the answer in the back of the book could be wrong.
  • A further contribution clarifies the mathematical interpretation of vacuum pressure, proposing a relationship that leads to a recalculated gage pressure of 54.279 psi.
  • Concerns are raised about the ambiguity in the problem statement regarding the pressure measurement units, with a participant noting that the lack of specification (absolute or gauge) violates standard requirements.
  • One participant references a quotation about how vacuum pressure is reported, emphasizing the importance of clarity in pressure definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the calculated gage pressures, with some supporting the initial calculation and others proposing alternative interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which calculation is accurate and how to interpret the problem statement.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the definitions of pressure types (absolute vs. gauge) and the implications of the vacuum environment on the calculations. The ambiguity in the problem statement regarding pressure measurement may affect the conclusions drawn.

lizzyb
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State the Problem

A gage is connected to a tank in which the pressure of the fluid is 42 psi above atmospheric. If the absolute pressure of the fluid remains unchanged but the gage is in a chamber where the air pressure is reduced to a vacuum of 25 inHg, what reading in psi will then be observed.

Related Equations, etc

Code:
P    = P    +  P                 (1)
 abs    atm     gage
Answer in back of book: 54.3 psi
Standard atmosphere at sea level: 14.696 psia (29.92 inHg)

Work Done So Far

1) Determine the absolute pressure using P_atm = 14.696 and P_gage = 42 psi

Code:
P    = 14.696 + 42 = 56.696 psia
 abs

2) P_chamber = 25 * 14.696 / 29.92 = 12.279 psi

and manipulating (1) a bit:

Code:
P     = P    - P        = 56.696 - 12.279 = 44.417
 gage    abs    chamber

Which isn't correct; how can I use equation (1) to determine P_gage correctly?

I suppose my problem is not having the correct relationship between P_atm and P_chamber; should I use:

Code:
 '
P    = P     - P        = 14.696 - 12.279 = 2.417   (2)
 atm    atm     chamber

 '               '
P     = P     - P    = 56.696 - 2.417 = 54.279
 gage    abs     atm

but how do I justify equation (2)?
 
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lizzyb: It currently appears to me your answer, 44.417 psi (gauge), is correct and the back of the book is wrong. I will be glad to hear from anyone if I am currently misinterpreting.
 
Thank you for your help.

Reading that section of the chapter again I noted the sentence:

Finnemore & Franzi said:
If the pressure is below that of the atmosphere, we call it a vacuum, and its gage value is the amount by which it is below that of the atmosphere.

So translating the statement to math:
Code:
P        = P    - P         => P         = P       - P
 chamber    atm    chamber      chamber     atm       chamber
 gage                                                 gage

                                      = 14.696  - 12.279
                                      = 2.417

 '
P     = P    - P        = 56.696 - 2.417 = 54.279
 gage    abs    chamber

I think the wording of the question could be improved.
 
Last edited:
The cited Finnemore quotation doesn't preclude using absolute pressure. Vacuum is reported three ways; e.g., 85 kPa (absolute), 85 kPa (gauge), or -85 kPa (gauge). All three methods are clear if the pressure is followed by the string "(absolute)" or "(gauge)," per the SAE, ASTM, and IEEE requirements.

The problem statement is ambiguous because the authors violated SAE TSB-003 and IEEE/ASTM SI10 requirements by not writing "25 inHg (absolute)" or "25 inHg (gauge)." But current evidence slightly points toward a chamber pressure of -25 inHg (gauge); i.e., 16.665 kPa (absolute).
 

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