Gas equation of state and shape of container

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether the equation of state for a gas composed of interacting particles is influenced by the shape of the container. Participants explore this concept in the context of gravitational interactions among particles, contrasting it with ideal gas behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the equation of state depends on container shape, suggesting that in a spherical container, pressure may be determined by volume and temperature, while in a box, pressure might vary due to particle distribution.
  • Another participant argues that the shape of the container does not affect pressure, stating that pressure arises from the erratic movement of gas particles, regardless of their position in the container.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that gas molecules are likely to be found throughout the container, including corners, and that pressure and temperature are linked to molecular motion.
  • One participant clarifies that they are not discussing ideal gases, but rather gases where particles exert gravitational forces on each other, without an external gravitational field.
  • Another participant reflects on the complexity of the problem, mentioning Van der Waals' work on the equation of state for weakly interacting particles, suggesting that shape may be irrelevant in that context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the influence of container shape on the equation of state, with no consensus reached regarding the relationship between shape and pressure distribution in the gas.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about particle motion and interaction types are not fully explored, and the discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of gravitational interactions among particles.

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Does the equation of state of a gas of interacting particles depend on the shape of the container they are in? For instance, if the interaction force is gravity (a central force) and the particles are in a spherical container, then it seems reasonable that the pressure on the wall of the container is determined by the volume of the sphere and temperature of the gas. But if the gas is in a box, it isn't obvious to me that the pressure would be the same everywhere on the walls, because the corners of the box are farther away from the center and fewer particles would be there.

By the way, if someone could tell me how to derive the equation of state of a gas of gravitating particles I would be grateful.
 
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What has it got to do with the center of the box? Anyway, with the effect of gravity, air particles are slightly weighed downwards. However, it's erratic movement in the volume is what gives it pressure. Nothing to do with the shape.

I'm assuming you're talking about the equation for an ideal gas. You just need Boyle's law and Charles' Law.
 
You are also assuming that the gas molecules are not moving inside the container. For a box, it is just as likely that you will find molecules of a gas in the corners as in the center of the box. The pressure and temperature of a gas are related to the motion of the molecules of the gas.
 
I'm not talking about an ideal gas. In an ideal gas, the particles don't interact in any way. I'm talking about particles that exert gravitational force on each other. They are not in an external gravitational field.
 
Maybe this problem is harder than I thought. Some googling told me that Van der Waals got the Nobel Prize for finding the approximate equation of state assuming a weak interaction (where the shape of the container is irrelevant, and the density is close to uniform).
 

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