General Equation for Sn in Terms of n

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The discussion focuses on deriving a general equation for the sequence Sn, defined as Sn = ∑ni = 1 (Sn - i)-1 with S0 = 1. Participants explore the approximation of Sn for large n, suggesting that Sn approaches √(2n). The derivation involves interpreting the sum as a Riemann sum linked to an integral equation, leading to the conclusion that f(x) = √(2x) is a solution. A clarification is provided regarding the constant c in the integral equation, establishing that c must be zero based on the evaluation at x=0, which does not affect the approximation's validity for large n. The conversation emphasizes that while the approximation is not exact, it remains effective for large values of n.
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Sn = ∑ni = 1 (Sn - i)-1
S0 = 1

I want to know how to find the general equation for Sn (An example of what I mean by "general equation" would be
Sn = ∑ni = 1i = n(n+1)/2).
Here's S0 though S5:

S0 = 1
S1 = 1
S2 = 1 + 1
S3 = 1 + 1 + 1/2
S4= 1 + 1 + 1/2 + 2/5
S5 = 1 + 1 + 1/2 + 2/5 + 10/29

Thanks in advance, sorry if anything is unclear.
 
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I don't know about an exact formula, but it seems that for large ##n##, ##S_n \approx \sqrt{2 n}##.
 
The_Duck said:
I don't know about an exact formula, but it seems that for large ##n##, ##S_n \approx \sqrt{2 n}##.

That's neat! How did you get that result?
 
We can view the sum as being a Riemann sum (using rectangles of width 1) corresponding to the following integral equation:
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Differentiating both sides, we get
$$f'(x) = \frac{1}{f(x)}$$
By the product rule, this is equivalent to
$$ \frac{d}{dx}(f(x)\cdot f(x)) = 2$$
Thus
$$(f(x))^2 = 2x + c$$
and
$$f(x) = \sqrt{2x + c}$$
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.

So ##f(x) = \sqrt{2x}## is a solution to the integral equation, and therefore, ##S_n = \sqrt{2n}## is an approximate solution to the original problem, when ##n## is large.
 
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jbunniii said:
We can view the sum as being a Riemann sum (using rectangles of width 1) corresponding to the following integral equation:
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Differentiating both sides, we get
$$f'(x) = \frac{1}{f(x)}$$
By the product rule, this is equivalent to
$$ \frac{d}{dx}(f(x)\cdot f(x)) = 2$$
Thus
$$(f(x))^2 = 2x + c$$
and
$$f(x) = \sqrt{2x + c}$$
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.

So ##f(x) = \sqrt{2x}## is a solution to the integral equation, and therefore, ##S_n = \sqrt{2n}## is an approximate solution to the original problem, when ##n## is large.

Thanks a lot for explaining that, there's something I don't understand though:
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.
Why is c=0 forced? Why isn't it c=1?
 
m84uily said:
Thanks a lot for explaining that, there's something I don't understand though:
The integral equation evaluated at ##x=0## forces ##c=0##.
Why is c=0 forced? Why isn't it c=1?
We have
$$f(x) = \int_{0}^{x}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
Evaluating this at ##x=0## gives us
$$f(0) = \int_{0}^{0}\frac{dt}{f(t)}$$
The right hand side is an integral over an interval of zero width, so the result is zero. Note that this forces the integrand to have zero denominator at ##t=0##, but that's OK: the integral from 0 to 0 is still 0, and ##1/\sqrt{2t}## is (improperly) integrable over ##[0,x]## despite the singularity at ##t=0##.

Don't be concerned that ##f(0) = 0## does not match ##S_0 = 1## - no one is claiming that ##\sqrt{2n}## is an exact fit, just that it is a good approximation for large ##n##. Note that even if we had ##c=1##, the difference between ##\sqrt{2n+1}## and ##\sqrt{2n}## is negligible for large ##n##.
 
Okay thanks again, I understand now.
 
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