Generating Electromagnetic Waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generation of electromagnetic (EM) waves, particularly focusing on the factors that determine their frequency when a current is accelerated through a wire. Participants explore theoretical and experimental possibilities of achieving light frequencies, the relationship between current oscillation and EM wave frequency, and the mechanisms behind light production in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the frequency of the radiated EM waveform corresponds to the frequency content of the exciting current in the antenna, with considerations for resonance and radiation resistance.
  • Questions arise about what is meant by "frequency content," whether it refers to an AC source or physical frequency limits of materials.
  • One participant suggests that high currents can excite electrons in stable atoms, leading to the emission of visible light, while another challenges this by explaining that incandescent bulbs produce light through thermal vibrations of the filament rather than electron collisions.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the oscillation frequency of the current and the frequency of the EM wave, with inquiries about the existence of a formula for this relationship.
  • Some participants clarify that typical EM waves are generated by oscillating charges rather than collisions, citing synchrotron facilities as examples of generating various light frequencies.
  • Concerns are raised regarding how radio waves are produced by radio towers, specifically how specific frequencies are achieved and correlated with the oscillating current.
  • It is noted that radio antennas are typically matched to multiples of 1/4 wavelength for the desired EM wave, and radio stations use tuned oscillators to ensure the correct frequency is broadcast.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of light production and the relationship between current oscillation and EM wave frequency. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on definitions of frequency content, unresolved mathematical relationships between current and EM wave frequency, and the dependence on specific conditions for light generation.

nuclear420
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When a current is accelerated through a wire, an electromagnetic wave is created. What determines the frequency of this wave? Is it possible (theoretically and experimentally) to achieve the frequency of light? (Possibly with a large voltage from multiple capacitors and a super-conducting material?)
 
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nuclear420 said:
When a current is accelerated through a wire, an electromagnetic wave is created. What determines the frequency of this wave? Is it possible (theoretically and experimentally) to achieve the frequency of light? (Possibly with a large voltage from multiple capacitors and a super-conducting material?)

The frequency of the radiated EM waveform is basically equivalent to the frequency content of the exciting current in the antenna. There are resonance and radiation resistance considerations, but basically what you put in (that's matched well to the antenna) is what you get out.
 
berkeman said:
The frequency of the radiated EM waveform is basically equivalent to the frequency content of the exciting current in the antenna. There are resonance and radiation resistance considerations, but basically what you put in (that's matched well to the antenna) is what you get out.

What do you mean by frequency content? (An AC source or the material having a physical frequency limit?) Also, would it be possible to make visible light?
 
I thought about the question some more and realized that if the current is high enough it will cause the free moving electrons to collide with the electrons in the stable atom and cause some of its electrons to be excited. Once these electrons de-excite, they can release visible light (or a frequency near it). (Example: light bulb)

As for free floating electrons producing light, the dielectric breakdown of a vacuum is a perfect example.

Now the only question unanswered is how the frequency of the EM wave is determined from the accelerated (or oscillating in the case of AC) current. Does the oscillation frequency of the current = the EM wave frequency? Is there a formula for it?
 
nuclear420 said:
I thought about the question some more and realized that if the current is high enough it will cause the free moving electrons to collide with the electrons in the stable atom and cause some of its electrons to be excited. Once these electrons de-excite, they can release visible light (or a frequency near it). (Example: light bulb)

Er..no. Your incandescent light bulb does not produce light that way. It is due to the heat generated by the vibrating ions in the lattice of the metal filament. This is why the light spectrum from such sources is continuous - try looking at it using a diffraction grating spectrometer.

Now the only question unanswered is how the frequency of the EM wave is determined from the accelerated (or oscillating in the case of AC) current. Does the oscillation frequency of the current = the EM wave frequency? Is there a formula for it?

This is not that big of a deal. As has been mentioned, the typical EM wave is generated by oscillating charges, NOT by collision with other things, unless you only want to generate bremsstrahlung radiation. In synchrotron facilities, the use a series of wigglers/undulators to cause the electron beam to oscillate and generate the various frequencies of light ranging from IR all the way to hard x-rays.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
This is not that big of a deal. As has been mentioned, the typical EM wave is generated by oscillating charges, NOT by collision with other things, unless you only want to generate bremsstrahlung radiation. In synchrotron facilities, the use a series of wigglers/undulators to cause the electron beam to oscillate and generate the various frequencies of light ranging from IR all the way to hard x-rays.

Zz.

What about when radio waves are created by radio towers? You need specific frequencies for the specific radio channels. How would they ensure that their radio wave is created at only the frequency they need? How does it correlate with the oscillating current?
 
nuclear420 said:
What about when radio waves are created by radio towers? You need specific frequencies for the specific radio channels. How would they ensure that their radio wave is created at only the frequency they need? How does it correlate with the oscillating current?

The size of the radio antenna is matched to (generally) multiples of 1/4 wavelength for the EM wave you want to launch. The radio station uses tuned oscillators at their broadcast frequncy (call it 98.5MHz as an example), and modulate that RF carrier with the audio or other information. The modulation frequency content is small compared to the frequency of the carrier wave (like you might modulate 20kHz audio onto the 98.5MHz carrier), so the frequency content of the power RF signal you are feeding to the broadcast antenna is still right around the frequency that the antenna is tuned for.

Here is a basic intro to broadcast antennas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_transmitter

.
 

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