Geometric Description of Free EM Field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the geometric description of electromagnetism, particularly focusing on the relationships between various fiber bundles in the context of both flat and curved space-time. Participants explore the mathematical structures involved, including cotangent bundles, principal bundles, and gauge theories, as well as the implications for field theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines three or four bundles relevant to electromagnetism: the cotangent bundle, the SO(1,3) bundle, and the U(1) gauge bundle, questioning their interrelations and the nature of differential operators involved.
  • Another participant claims that the frame bundle is associated with the cotangent bundle and discusses the relationship between gauge fields and associated vector bundles.
  • There is a request for sources on geometric descriptions of field theory, indicating a search for foundational texts in the area.
  • One participant mentions that the d-bar operator is equivalent to the d operator, suggesting a uniqueness in differentiation, while another clarifies that for non-Abelian groups, gauge fields are valued in the adjoint representation.
  • A fourth bundle, the jet bundle, is introduced, with questions about its relation to the previously mentioned bundles and its utility in defining Lagrangian functionals.
  • Participants express uncertainty about jet bundles, with one providing a basic description and noting their potential relevance in geometric quantization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationships between the different bundles and operators, with no consensus reached on the exact nature of these relationships or the role of the jet bundle. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the connections and implications of these mathematical structures.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationships between the bundles and operators, indicating that further exploration and clarification are needed. There are also references to specific mathematical texts that may provide additional context, but no definitive conclusions are drawn.

dextercioby
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I'm not a geometer, so I beg for indulgence on the below:

In a modern geometrical description of electromagnetism (either in flat or in curved space-time*), I see at least 3 (or 4) (fiber) bundles over the 4D space-time taken to be the base space:

* 1 the cotangent bundle and the bundle of p-forms over space time (de Rham complex). Differential operator: d Here the EM field appears as: the potential is a 1 form field, the field strength is a 2 form field. F=dA.

* 2 the (principal?)[itex]SO_{\uparrow}(1,3)[/itex] bundle of tensors over space time. Here if the group is replaced by SL(2,C), we get the spinor bundle over space time, a concept described in the 13th chapter of Wald's book - in the context of a curved space time. Here I imagine A and F as covariant and double covariant tensors. Differential operator = [itex]\partial_{\mu}[/itex] or [itex]\nabla_{\mu}[/itex].

* 3 the so-called U(1) gauge bundle over space time (principal/associated bundle ?) , with F and A having particular descriptions. Here we have another differential operator d-bar, such as F = d-bar A.

Questions:

a) How are 1,2,3 exactly related ?
b) Is d-bar at 3 related to d at 1 ? I suspect yes. How can it be proven ? The operator at 2, how's it related to d-bar at 3 or to d at 1 ?

Thank you!
 
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2 is the frame bundle of 1. As the discussion there describes, the bundle of forms is an example of an vector bundle associated to a principal G-bundle. As for 3, any G-bundle has associated vector bundles associated with the representations of G, see here. We could more accurately claim that the gauge fields ##A_\mu## is a section of a bundle which is itself a product of a principal ##U(1)## bundle with ##T^*(X)##. While it's a bit transparent here, we can say that ##T^*(M)## is the associated vector bundle for the trivial ##U(1)## representation.
 
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Hi Fzero, thank you for the answer. One more question, though. Wiki is fine for definitions (as any encyclopedia), but can't be used as a textbook. So which sources (as in books) did you use (in college or in research/job after college) to acquire in your mind a valid geometric description of field theory ?

And d-bar of mine above is the same as d in 1, thus the differentiation is unique ?
 
dextercioby said:
Hi Fzero, thank you for the answer. One more question, though. Wiki is fine for definitions (as any encyclopedia), but can't be used as a textbook. So which sources (as in books) did you use (in college or in research/job after college) to acquire in your mind a valid geometric description of field theory ?

Nakahara, Geometry, Topology, and Physics is decent. If you want something a bit more rigorous, Choquet-Bruhat and DeWitt-Morette, Analysis, Manifolds and Physics is a 2-vol set, though I think the basics are covered in the first volume. AMP has quite a bit more functional analysis than a typical geometry book, since part of their focus was to put various physics methods in a rigorous mathematical framework. If you want a reference tailored to the mathematics alone, Kobayashi and Nomizu, Foundations of Differential Geometry is pretty accessible, if I recall correctly.

And d-bar of mine above is the same as d in 1, thus the differentiation is unique ?

We can be more specific. If ##G## were non-Abelian, then the gauge fields are ##\mathrm{ad}~G## valued 1-forms, so we can say that they live in ##\omega^1(X, \mathrm{ad}~G)##. There is a covariant exterior derivative ##d_A## on this space that extends from the ordinary exterior derivative on ##\omega^1(X)##. In your case the ##U(1)## bundle has a trivial connection so we just have the ordinary derivative.
 
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Thank you for the reccomendations, I'll get hold of them. One more question. There's a 4th bundle in classical field theory: the jet bundle. Where do they come in and how are they related to 1->3 ?

Thanks!
 
dextercioby said:
Thank you for the reccomendations, I'll get hold of them. One more question. There's a 4th bundle in classical field theory: the jet bundle. Where do they come in and how are they related to 1->3 ?

Thanks!

I've heard the term (probably in the context of geometric quantization), but I'm not really familiar with jet bundles. What I can gather from the wiki description is that, given a bundle ##E\rightarrow X## with some sections ##\sigma##, we can construct jet bundles in such a way that the sections of the jet bundle are the vectors ##(\sigma, \partial^1 \sigma, \ldots, \partial^r \sigma)##, where ##\partial^i \sigma## is the ith derivative with respect to the coordinates on ##X##.

There's an example on the wiki where they explain that the 1st jet bundle is diffeomorphic to ##\mathbb{R} \times T^*(X)##. The first term corresponds to the function, while the 1-form corresponds to its derivative. I would say that the function should more properly be thought of as a section of an ##\mathbb{R}## bundle over ##X##, but since this is trivial, I suppose that the claimed product structure is correct.

It seems that this structure is useful to some people because the data is precisely what you want to define a Lagrangian functional. I've just never had a reason to learn about any of this.
 

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