Geometrical definition of Curl -- proof

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the geometrical definition of curl in the context of curvilinear coordinates, specifically referencing a page from "Mathematical Methods for Physics and Engineering." Participants seek clarification on specific terms and the rationale behind the proof of curl's geometrical form.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants inquire about the rationale for certain terms in the context of curvilinear coordinates and how the components of a vector field change with respect to these coordinates. There is also a question regarding why variations are considered in only two directions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different aspects of the proof and questioning the assumptions related to the coordinate system. Some guidance has been offered regarding the behavior of vector fields in curvilinear coordinates, but no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

There is a note that the original poster is not an expert in Calculus in curvilinear coordinates, which may influence the depth of the discussion. Additionally, a request has been made to move the thread to a different forum for potentially more specialized assistance.

vgarg
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Homework Statement
Need help with understanding proof of geometrical form of Curl.
Relevant Equations
Please see the attachment.
Can someone please explain me the rationale for the terms circled in red on the attached copy of page 400 of "Riley, Hobson, Bence - Mathematical Methods for Physics and Engineering, 3rd edition"?
Thank you.

Mentor Note: approved - it is only a single book page, so no copyright issue.
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
vgarg said:
Homework Statement: Need help with understanding proof of geometrical form of Curl.
Relevant Equations: Please see the attachment.

Can someone please explain me the rationale for the terms circled in red on the attached copy of page 400 of "Riley, Hobson, Bence - Mathematical Methods for Physics and Engineering, 3rd edition"?
Thank you.

Mentor Note: approved - it is only a single book page, so no copyright issue.
In curvilinear coordinates, the coordinate lines are not necessarily straight lines, and the scale factors (metric coefficients) ##h_2## and ##h_3## can vary with the coordinates ##u_2## and ##u_3##. Consequently, the components of the vector field ##\mathbf{a}## can change with respect to the coordinates, leading to nonzero derivative terms.

##\frac{\partial}{\partial u_2} (a_3 h_3)## and ##\frac{\partial}{\partial u_3} (a_2 h_2)## account for the the change in the components of the vector field ##\mathbf{a}## as we move along the coordinate directions.

Edit: I'm not an expert on Calculus in curvilinear coordinates, so take my comment with a grain of salt if you can.
 
Last edited:
docnet said:
In curvilinear coordinates, the coordinate lines are not necessarily straight lines, and the scale factors (metric coefficients) ##h_2## and ##h_3## can vary with the coordinates ##u_2## and ##u_3##. Consequently, the components of the vector field ##\mathbf{a}## can change with respect to the coordinates, leading to nonzero derivative terms.

##\frac{\partial}{\partial u_2} (a_3 h_3)## and ##\frac{\partial}{\partial u_3} (a_2 h_2)## account for the the change in the components of the vector field ##\mathbf{a}## as we move along the coordinate directions.

Edit: I'm not an expert on Calculus in curvilinear coordinates, so take my comment with a grain of salt if you can.
But why in only 2 directions and not in the other 2 directions?
 
I think its because the planar surface ##PQRS## is locally perpendicular to ##\hat{e}_1## in the curvilinear system, so any variations in the ##u_1## direction don't affect the surface defined by the ##u_2## and ##u_3## coordinates.
 
Can one of the mentors please move this thread to Mathematics, Calculus forum? May be someone in that form can help me with this. Thank you!
 
  • Sad
Likes   Reactions: docnet

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 91 ·
4
Replies
91
Views
15K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K