Given a system at pressure p_sat, is the vapor mass fraction unique?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the uniqueness of vapor mass fractions in a closed system containing a single component (e.g., water) at a specific pressure and temperature on the saturation curve. Participants explore whether mass fractions in the vapor and liquid phases can change without altering the (p,T) coordinates, considering concepts such as Gibbs' phase rule and degrees of freedom in thermodynamic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that mass fractions in the vapor and liquid phases are unique based on Gibbs' phase rule and Duhem's theorem, but questions arise regarding the lack of plots showing vapor mass fraction against temperature.
  • Another participant argues that mass fractions are not unique, suggesting that changing the volume of the system can alter the ratios of vapor and liquid while keeping temperature and pressure constant.
  • A third participant expresses agreement with the idea that mass fractions can change but struggles to reconcile this with Gibbs' phase rule, questioning whether vapor mass fraction is an intensive variable.
  • Further exploration reveals that the relative mass fractions are not considered degrees of freedom, as they depend on pressure and temperature, leading to confusion about the implications of volume changes on mass fractions.
  • A later reply mentions confirmation from a professor that volume is necessary alongside (p,T) to determine mass fractions, reinforcing the idea that Gibbs' phase rule does not address relative mass fractions directly.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the equation of state on density and how it relates to the saturation curve, noting that specifying (p,T) alone does not uniquely determine density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether vapor mass fractions are unique. There are competing views regarding the role of volume and the interpretation of Gibbs' phase rule, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about degrees of freedom, the role of volume in determining mass fractions, and the interpretation of intensive versus extensive variables. These factors contribute to the complexity of the discussion without resolution.

AndersFK
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Assume you have a (closed) system with only one component (for instance water) which is in a pressure-temperature-point (p,T) *on the saturation curve* (i.e. liquid and vapor/gas can coexist). Are the mass fractions in the vapor and liquid phases unique? Or is it possible to change the mass fractions without moving around in the (p,T)-plane?

First I thought the answer was that they're unique (Gibb's phase rule, Duhem's theorem) but on the other hand I have never seen a plot of for instance the vapor mass fraction vs. temperature, which should be possible to produce if they're unique. Or is the reason just that the saturation curve is infinitesimal, so in reality vapor and liquid will never coexist if the system only consist of one component?
 
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I don't think the mass fractions are unique. If you have a container containing water vapor and liquid water in equilibrium, and you isothermally change the volume, I'm pretty sure that both the temperature and the pressure stay constant and it is the ratios of the substances which changes instead. For example, if you reduce the volume, some vapor turns to liquid.

I'm not sure how this reconciles with Gibbs' phase rule.
 
Thanks for your reply TobyC! I think I agree with your conclusion. It seems odd if you can't change the mass fractions...

However, I'm not sure either how this is in agreement with Gibb's phase rule. Something has to be wrong about my first reasoning:
The system consists of C=1 component and P=2 phases. Hence, the system has only F=2+C-P=1 degree of freedom. I.e., if one intensive variable (for instance temperature or pressure) is given, all other intensive variables are determined. Since the vapor mass fraction is an intensive variable, the mass fraction is unique.
Maybe the vapor mass fraction isn't an intensive variable? I want to believe it is scale invariant...

  • Source, Gibb's phase rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs%27_phase_rule"
  • Source, intensive/extensive variables: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_and_extensive_properties"
 
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I've been thinking about this some more.

Where I have seen Gibbs' phase rule introduced, the degrees of freedom which you can have are the pressure, the temperature, and then the ratios of the different components in your system.

The relative mass fractions in each phase are not degrees of freedom, since you don't have the ability to set them directly like you do with the ones mentioned above, they depend on the variables above. It is still puzzling that they are not unique for a system with its degrees of freedom specified though, because this suggests another degree of freedom (which in the case of the example I posted above would be the volume).

In a single component system, your only possible degrees of freedom are the pressure and the temperature, but in a single component with two phases coexisting you only get 1 degree of freedom (from Gibbs' phase rule), and this is either the pressure or the temperature (if you set one the other is determined).

This doesn't appear to agree with the fact that you can also change the volume of the system, and hence change the mass fractions in each phase, but this might be because the volume isn't considered as a degree of freedom in the derivation of Gibbs' phase rule.
 
I asked one of the professors today (by mail) and he confirmed that you need the volume in addition to the point (p,T) to determine the mass fractions. He also said that "Gibb's phase rule still holds because it does not concern itself about the relative mass fractions in each phase".

In my textbook, the derivation for Gibb's phase rule is just a simple counting "proof" that starts with the number of variables (as you say; they usually are assumed to be pressure, temperature and the mass component ratios in each phase) and subtracts the number of equations. So I agree with you that it looks like volume is not regarded as a degree of freedom. I find that a little bit strange, since the volume (with (p,T) specified) determines the density. Maybe there are historical reasons behind...

Another way of viewing the problem is that the equation of state f(p,T,rho)=0 exactly on the saturation curve has two solutions for the density, i.e. with just (p,T) specified you are free to choose one or a weighted average of the two densities...
 

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