Goldstein Mechanics example motion of one particle in polar coordinates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a derivation related to the motion of a particle in polar coordinates as presented in Goldstein's Classical Mechanics. Participants are examining the mathematical formulation of the equations of motion, specifically focusing on the theta equation and the application of the chain rule in deriving the terms involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the derivation of the term $$mr² \dot \Theta$$ and questions the inclusion of $$\dot r$$ in the second term of the equation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the second term accounts for the time-varying radius and suggests using the chain rule for the derivation.
  • A participant acknowledges the unit inconsistency in their initial formulation and notes the importance of the chain rule in the context of the problem.
  • A further elaboration on the chain rule is provided, leading to a proposed correct formulation of the derivative involving $$\ddot \Theta$$ and $$\dot r$$.
  • One participant confirms the correctness of the proposed formulation and shares a notation tip regarding LaTeX for time derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the chain rule and the necessity of including $$\dot r$$ in the derivation. However, there is no explicit consensus on the initial confusion regarding the derivation itself, as it stems from differing interpretations of the terms involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of ensuring consistent units across terms and the correct application of mathematical notation, particularly in LaTeX, which may affect clarity in communication.

Jillds
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I have a course next semester on Classical Mechanics (mostly Lagrangian problems), for a second time. I'm ok for the theoretical preparation, but I'm trying to work ahead on problems and exercises, which was badly explained and without much of any resources. So, one of the sources to exercise on my own is Goldstein's book, and am just working through the examples of the first chapter.
However, for the second example I stumble across a derivation I'm confused how the author got to that one.

Example: motion of one particle in polar coordinates, page 27 (3rd ed), for the theta equation.

For the derivative of $$(mr² \dot \Theta)$$ he finds: $$mr² \ddot \Theta + 2 mr \dot r \dot \Theta$$.
While I expect it to be: $$mr² \ddot \Theta + 2 mr \dot \Theta$$
Where does Goldstein get the $$\dot r$$ from?

Edited: rewrote the question in LaTex notation
 
Last edited:
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The second term is taking into account that the radius can vary in time. Use the chain rule.

You can also see that your second term doesn't have the right units, and you need a second time derivative somewhere.
 
Thank you: yes you are right, I don't have the same units in my second term as the first one. I'll make a note of it on the chain rule. I assume that would be the following one:

##\sum_{j} \frac{\delta^{2}L}{\delta q_{j}\delta \dot q_{i}} \dot q_{j}+\sum_{j} \frac{\delta^{2}L}{\delta \dot q_{j} \delta \dot q_{i}} \ddot q_{j}+\frac{\delta^{2}L}{\delta \dot q_{i} \delta t}##

Edited: added \dot LaTex notation
 
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writing it out in a chain rule that would make for:

##\frac{d}{dt}(mr² \dot \Theta)= \frac{\delta}{\delta \dot \Theta}(mr² \dot \Theta)\frac{d \dot \Theta}{dt}+\frac{\delta}{\delta r}(mr² \dot \Theta)\frac{dr}{dt}=mr²\ddot \Theta+2mr \dot \Theta \dot r##

Is that correct?

Edited: added \dot LaTex notation
 
Last edited:
That looks right to me.

I should note that in LaTex you can write time derivatives using the \dot, e.g., $$\dot r.$$ For higher time derivatives just put as many 'd's as there are time derivatives, e.g., \dddot r is : $$\dddot r.$$
 
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Thanks! That'll help with future notations.
 

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