Gradient transforms under axes rotation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating how the gradient of a function of two variables, specifically y and z, transforms as a vector under the rotation of axes. The original poster presents a mathematical expression for the gradient and attempts to apply the chain rule to derive the transformed gradient after rotation.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use the chain rule to express the gradient in terms of the rotated coordinates. Some participants question the correctness of the derivatives calculated, particularly regarding the transformation of y and z under rotation.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the differentiation process and the assumptions made during the transformation. There is a focus on ensuring that the derivatives are correctly derived, with some participants suggesting that there may be a misunderstanding in the differentiation with respect to the variables involved.

Contextual Notes

There seems to be confusion regarding the differentiation of the transformation equations, particularly in how constants and variables are treated. The original poster's approach to ignoring certain terms during differentiation is under scrutiny.

Karol
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Homework Statement


[itex]f[/itex] is a function of two variables: y, z. I want to show that the gradient:

[tex]\nabla f=\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\hat y + \frac{\partial f}{\partial z}\hat z[/tex]
Transforms as a vector under rotation of axes.

Homework Equations


The rotation of axes:
[tex]A \left\{\begin{array}{l}\bar {y} = y \cdot \cos \phi + z \cdot \sin \phi \\ \bar {z} = -y \cdot \sin + z \cdot \cos \end{array}\right.[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution


I use the chain rule:
[tex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial \bar {y}}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{\partial y}{\partial \bar {y}}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial z}\frac{\partial z}{\partial \bar {y}}[/tex]
And the similar for [itex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial \bar {z}}[/itex]. In order to find [itex]\frac{\partial y}{\partial \bar {y}}[/itex] and [itex]\frac{\partial z}{\partial \bar {z}}[/itex] i solve A for y and z and get:

[tex]\left\{\begin{matrix} y= \bar {y}\cdot \cos \phi - \bar {z}\cdot \sin \phi \\ z= \bar {y}\cdot \sin \phi +\bar {z}\cdot \cos \phi\end{matrix}\right.[/tex]

Now i get:
[tex]\left\{\begin{array}{l}\frac{\partial f}{\partial \bar {y}}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}(-\sin \phi)+\frac{\partial f}{\partial z}\cos \phi \\ \frac{\partial f}{\partial \bar {z}}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}(-\cos \phi)+\frac{\partial f}{\partial z}(-\sin \phi)\end{array}\right.[/tex]
Not as i expected, in the form of A.
It is closer to switching between the axes, but that's all i understand from this result.
 
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How did you get ##\partial y/\partial \bar{y} = -\sin \phi##? That's what your final results imply. Similar questions for the other derivatives.
 
For [itex]\partial y/\partial \bar{y}[/itex] I differentiated the formula i derived earlier:
[tex]y= \bar {y}\cdot \cos \phi - \bar {z}\cdot \sin \phi[/tex]
 
Which doesn't give you ##\partial y/\partial \bar{y} = -\sin \phi##. That's why I'm asking where did you get that from.
 
You mean i have a mistake in differentiating [itex]y= \bar {y}\cdot \cos \phi - \bar {z}\cdot \sin \phi[/itex]? how come?
The derivative of [itex]\cos[/itex] is [itex]-\sin[/itex], and i ignore the second member [itex]\bar {z}\cdot \sin \phi[/itex] because it doesn't contain [itex]\bar {y}[/itex].
Or you ask how did i get: [itex]y= \bar {y}\cdot \cos \phi - \bar {z}\cdot \sin \phi[/itex]?
 
[itex]-sin(\phi)[/itex] is the derivative of [itex]cos(\phi)[/itex] with respect to [itex]\phi[/itex]. You are not differentiating with respect to [itex]\phi[/itex]. [itex]\phi[/itex] is a constant.
 
Thanks!
 

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