Gravitational or inertial mass gain in cern ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of mass gain in hadrons at CERN's LHC, specifically whether this gain is attributed to inertial mass or active gravitational mass. The scope includes theoretical implications of relativistic physics and the interpretation of mass-energy equivalence in high-energy particle collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that hadrons gain "real mass" as a result of the equation E=mc², particularly as they approach the speed of light.
  • Another participant argues that the increase is related to inertia, stating that the active gravitational mass is too small to measure and that energy contributes to gravitational mass in a more complex manner.
  • There is a clarification regarding the terminology of "maximum possible speed," with a participant emphasizing that hadrons do not reach the speed of light but come very close to it.
  • One participant notes that in collisions, energy is used to create new particles rather than converting existing mass into mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the mass gain is inertial or gravitational, indicating a lack of consensus on the interpretation of mass in this context. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of mass types and the complexities of relativistic effects, which are not fully explored or agreed upon.

Alex_P
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Hi,

I have been reading about CERN for a while and found amazing - amongst many other things - the fact that hadrons in the LHC turn some of their energy to mass after having reached the maximum possible speed. However this statement was not clear enough. I was wondering whether the mass they gained was their Inertial or their Active Gravitational. Do they really get heavier or is it just an increase of their inertia?

Thank you in advance,
Alex
 
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It's real mass. The result of E=mc^2 or m=Ec^-2.
As they approach the speed of light, the affect is enormous.
 
They increase their inertia, that is sure and easy to see. The active gravitational mass is far too small to measure it. According to GR, their energy is a contribution to active gravitational mass (in our lab frame), but the gravitational effect of moving masses is more complicated than a simple increase in mass.
the fact that hadrons in the LHC turn some of their energy to mass
They don't turn something into something else. In collisions, a fraction of their energy is used to create new particles.
after having reached the maximum possible speed
That does not happen, but they are very close to the speed of light (some km/h away from it).
 
Thank you for your replies! You 've both been most informative!

after having reached the maximum possible speed
That does not happen, but they are very close to the speed of light (some km/h away from it).
I meant the hadron's maximum possible speed which is of course less than the speed of light.
 

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