Gravitational Potential Energy - Further=Smaller?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of gravitational potential energy (GPE) and its relationship with kinetic energy (KE) as two masses approach each other. Participants explore the implications of the GPE formula and its interpretation in the context of gravitational interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested, Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the GPE formula Ep=GMM/r, suggesting it contradicts the expected kinetic energy upon collision due to gravitational acceleration.
  • Another participant corrects the formula, stating that the correct expression for GPE is GPE = -GMm/r, noting that GPE increases as masses separate and reaches a maximum of 0 at infinity.
  • A later reply confirms the corrected formula and discusses a specific example involving two masses, questioning whether a loss of GPE corresponds to a gain in kinetic energy as they move from infinity to a finite distance.
  • One participant acknowledges the correctness of the previous calculation but does not verify it, indicating a level of uncertainty regarding the numerical values involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the corrected formula for gravitational potential energy, but there remains uncertainty regarding the implications of GPE on kinetic energy and the interpretation of energy conversion as masses approach each other.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential misunderstandings regarding the nature of gravitational force and energy conversion, as well as the assumptions underlying the GPE formula. The dependency on the correct interpretation of the formula and the conditions of the system is noted.

wavingerwin
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I recently looked at wikipedia for gravitational potential energy

For two masses; M and m, and distance; r between their centres,
gravitational energy; Ep is:

Ep=GMMr-1

With this, the further away the masses, the smaller the potential energy the system has

But this does not make sense to me because the further away the masses are,
the more kinetic energy they will collide with (after accelerated for some time due
to gravitational force between the masses).

Other than gravitational potential energy, no other energy can be converted to this
kinetic energy. Hence, the fact that GPE is small for further masses contadicts with
the large KE they will collide with.

Can somebody explain?

more:
The model Ep=GMMr-1 seems not right to me
because if it is derived from:
W=Fd
W=GMMr-2r
W=GMMr-1
Ep=GMMr-1
therefore the gravitational force throughout the acceleration of the two masses
will be constant, whereas in real life it will not be, because the force will
be bigger and bigger as the masses come nearer and nearer.

Please help. Thank you
 
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v_bachtiar said:
I recently looked at wikipedia for gravitational potential energy

For two masses; M and m, and distance; r between their centres,
gravitational energy; Ep is:

Ep=GMMr-1
You left out an all-important minus sign:
GPE = -GMm/r.

GPE increases as they separate to a maximum value of 0 at infinity.
 
You left out an all-important minus sign:
GPE = -GMm/r.

GPE increases as they separate to a maximum value of 0 at infinity.

Ah, i see :shy:

So, if there are two masses, 5E+6 kg and 10E+5 kg, separated at 50 m at their centres
hence: GPE of the system is -6.67 Joules

does this mean to move from r=infinity to r=50m it has lost 6.67Joules of potential energy
converted to EK?
 
That is correct (I didn't do the calculation to check though, so I'm assuming you got the value right).
 

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