Gravitational torque on a ring mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the gravitational tidal torque on a circular ring inclined at an angle, with connections to precession problems such as Earth's axis precession. Participants explore the geometry and forces involved in this scenario, seeking effective computational methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to compute the gravitational tidal torque on a circular ring inclined at an angle.
  • Another participant inquires about the center of mass of the ring and the gravitational force on an incremental mass on the ring, as well as the orientation of the normal to the ring's plane relative to the gravitational force.
  • A participant describes the ring's geometry, specifying its mass, radius, and inclination, and introduces a second mass placed at a distance to analyze the tidal torque due to its influence on the ring.
  • One participant presents equations for the ring's geometry, detailing the transformations involved in inclining the ring and rotating it around the z-axis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the computation of the tidal torque, and multiple viewpoints and questions remain unresolved regarding the geometry and forces acting on the ring.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the distances involved, the specific orientation of forces, and the mathematical steps required to derive the tidal torque.

chuligan
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What is a gravity tidal torque on a simple circular ring, inclined at some angle i?

I can't find a solution for this simple problem, despite the ring's idea is frequently used
in the precession problems, for example in the Earth's axis precession case.

How this can be computed effectively?
 
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Where's the center of mass of the ring? What is the gravitational force on an increment of mass dm on the ring? What is the orientation of the normal to the plane of the ring to the direction of gravitational force on the ring's center of mass?
 
The ring is flat and circular, with a mass m, and a radius is r;
the ring is inclined at angle i to the z axis (like a moon's orbit, or the equator of the Earth);
and it can be rotated at angle along z axis: f.

The second mass M is placed at a distance d to the ring, and we can assume: d >> r, say: d/r > 100
And question is: what is a tidal torque due to the mass M action on the ring?
 
I wrtie some equation for this ring geometry.

a simple unit circle |r| = 1, in a plane x-y:
[tex]r = (\cos t, \sin t, 0)[/tex]

then I must incline it at i angle to the z:

r' = r A; where A is a simple rotation matrix around y axis:
[tex]x' = x\cos i - z\sin i; z' = x\sin i + z\cos i[/tex]
thus:
[tex]r' = (\cos t\cos i, \sin t\cos i, \sin i)[/tex]

now we must rotate this around z jet:
r'' = r' B, where B is now rotation in x-y plane with angle f:
[tex]x' = xcosf - ysinf; y' = xsinf + ycosf[/tex]
thus the final ring is:

[tex]r = [\cos i\cos t\cos f - \cos i\sin t\sin f, \cos i\cos t\sin f + \cos i\sin t\cos f, \sin i][/tex]
 
Last edited:

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