Gravity affect on the motion of atoms ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of gravity, particularly in the context of supermassive black holes, on atomic motion and the potential implications for temperature and quantum states of matter. It touches on theoretical aspects of general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the nature of singularities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that runaway gravity in a supermassive black hole could halt atomic movement, leading to a state of coldness at the core due to extreme packing of matter.
  • Another participant counters that the core of a black hole is a singularity where atoms and particles do not exist, thus it cannot have a temperature, although the black hole as a whole has a temperature due to Hawking radiation.
  • A further claim is made that atomic lattice structures cannot exist within the light cone structure inside a black hole, which raises questions about causality and the transmission of information from the singularity.
  • One participant introduces the concept of entropy in relation to black holes, mentioning the holographic principle as a way to address unresolved issues regarding entropy and information related to singularities.
  • A question is posed about the familiarity of participants with neutron stars, potentially indicating a shift in focus or comparison with black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of atomic movement and temperature within black holes, with no consensus reached on these complex topics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of gravity on atomic behavior in extreme conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the nature of singularities, the definitions of temperature and entropy in the context of black holes, and the implications of causality within the framework of general relativity.

Paul Anderson
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I was wondering if the run away gravity in a super massive black hole could cause a lock up of sorts, and stop (nearly) all atomic movement? Packing the matter at it's core so tightly, that it would paralyze it at an atomic level. Could this possibly mean that near the center of these monsters, it could actually be...cold?
Bringing things into the strange world of quantum mechanics and making the strange quantum states of mater and particles possible?
 
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There is no "packing" at the core. Assuming the center is a singularity (=what General Relativity predicts) there are no atoms, or even individual particles any more. That also means the singularity itself does not have a temperature. The black hole as a whole object has one due to Hawking radiation, but that is a completely different thing.

If you are close to the event horizon of a black hole, but not falling in, all incoming light will be extremely blueshifted and will appear very hot to you.
If you are inside, you have to fall in, but blue-shifting can still happen.
 
Firstly, atomic lattice structure is not compatible with the light cone structure theoretically predicted inside a black hole, and is thus forbidden by principle of causality. (Unless some new theory breaks this, such as a tesseract bookshelf at the singularity:-p)

Secondly, the light cone structure dictates that information from the singularity is never transmitted radially outwards and thus no observer away from singularity could obtain any information about it. Without information, the notion of entropy is meaningless and so is temperature.

*However, black hole does have entropy. This is a mostly unresolved problem and people like Leonard Susskind proposed holographic principle to cope with it. Although I am no expert on holograms, I would assume that does not contain any information on the singularity itself nevertheless. But this is too far beyond the topic of this thread.
 
Are you familiar with neutron stars?
 

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