Gravity and Light: Questions Explored

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores various questions regarding the relationship between gravity and light, focusing on concepts from general relativity, the bending of light by gravity, and the implications of mass in photons. The scope includes theoretical inquiries and conceptual clarifications related to gravity's effects on light and the nature of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether gravity is always proportional to the mass of a celestial body and if other factors influence the gravity of distant stars.
  • There is a discussion about whether light bends only in the presence of massive stars or if it bends under any gravitational influence, albeit undetectable with current technology.
  • Participants mention the concept of gravitational lensing, suggesting that significant gravitational fields can create halos around stars, potentially leading to the formation of black holes.
  • Some participants propose that if gravity can affect photons, there might be a negligible mass associated with photons, questioning the rejection of theories suggesting otherwise and seeking mathematical proof of the masslessness of photons.
  • General relativity is referenced as a framework explaining that gravity bends space rather than acting directly on mass, leading to the bending of light.
  • There is a query about whether there are observable events that demonstrate the bending of space, as opposed to light, and if the bending of space is purely a mathematical concept.
  • Some participants discuss the historical experiment observing stars during a solar eclipse as evidence for light bending, while also noting philosophical considerations regarding the proof of theories in science.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of gravity's effect on light and the implications of general relativity. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on several points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of gravity and mass, as well as unresolved mathematical steps related to the bending of light and space.

jobyts
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Few questions:

1. Is gravity always proportional to the mass of the planet/star? Is there any other factor we consider when we determine the gravity of a distant star?

2. Does light bend only if it interacts with the gravity of a huge star, or,
the bend is visible with interaction huge stars, but happens with any small amount of gravity - but unable to detect with the current technology or our maths knowledge.

3. Can there be a possibility of so huge gravity (or mass) and it causes a halo around the star? (and no light comes out of it and we call it black hole, he...he...)

4. If gravity can affect photons, is there a possibility of mass for the photon which is so so negligible? Why do we reject any theory based on that (or, is there a mathematical proof that says photon has to be massless?)
 
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jobyts said:
1. Is gravity always proportional to the mass of the planet/star? Is there any other factor we consider when we determine the gravity of a distant star?
Distance - the force of gravity is the mass of the object * the distance away - squared

2. Does light bend only if it interacts with the gravity of a huge star, or,
the bend is visible with interaction huge stars, but happens with any small amount of gravity - but unable to detect with the current technology or our maths knowledge.
No any mass bends light. In very senstive astronomical observations we have to calculate the effect of light being bent by the gravity of other planets (especially Jupiter - which is still pretty massive).

3. Can there be a possibility of so huge gravity (or mass) and it causes a halo around the star?
Yes it's called a gravitational lens. We can see halos or multiple images of very distant objects because a galaxy near us is acting as a giant lens.

4. If gravity can affect photons, is there a possibility of mass for the photon which is so so negligible? Why do we reject any theory based on that (or, is there a mathematical proof that says photon has to be massless?)
General relativity shows us that gravity doesn't act directly on mass as you learned in high school - it actually bends space and this causes light (which has no mass) to bend.
There was a famous experiment almost 100years ago when stars were observed to move as their light passed very close to the sun (during an eclipse) which proved this theory.
 
mgb_phys said:
General relativity shows us that gravity doesn't act directly on mass as you learned in high school - it actually bends space and this causes light (which has no mass) to bend.
There was a famous experiment almost 100years ago when stars were observed to move as their light passed very close to the sun (during an eclipse) which proved this theory.

The experiment looks like a proof/observation of bending of light. If there any observable event for the bending of space? Or, is it a mathematically proved thing?
 
jobyts said:
The experiment looks like a proof/observation of bending of light. If there any observable event for the bending of space? Or, is it a mathematically proved thing?

The point of the experiment is that if you say the light is bent by gravity as if it had a mass (from E=mc^2) and work out the bending angle you get half as much as GR's bending of space theory predicts.
The experiment was to measure how much it bends - the result was for the bending of space.

Of course philosphically you could say this doesn't prove the theory - it only proves that the real theory should predict the same result as GR. But that's true of the whole of science.
 

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