Group of invertible elements of subring of C.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Silversonic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Elements Group
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a subring R of the complex numbers ℂ, specifically focusing on the group of invertible elements U(R) and proving that this group is cyclic given that it is finite. The discussion centers around the properties of elements in U(R) and their representations in terms of rational multiples of 2π.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the group being finite and the necessity for elements to have a modulus of one. There are attempts to understand the significance of the lowest common denominator in the context of coprimality and how it relates to generating elements of the group.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants questioning the assumptions about coprimality and the generation of the group. Some suggest that the existence of a smallest value for |p/q| leads to expressing it in lowest terms, while others express uncertainty about assuming coprimality without further proof. There is a recognition of the need to establish connections between the elements and their generating properties.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of proving certain properties related to the elements of the group and the implications of their representations. The discussion reflects a mix of attempts to clarify definitions and explore mathematical reasoning without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Silversonic
Messages
121
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement



Let R be a subring of ℂ such that the group of invertible elements U(R) is finite, show that this group is a cyclic group. (Group operation being multiply).

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I have the answer, and I got very close to getting there myself before I reached a roadblock and couldn't move on. Even though I've looked at the answer, I still cannot understand the part that was blocking me. I've genuinely spent a long time trying to understand this last part and it's probably something really simple, which has annoyed me a great deal.

The deal is this;

The group is finite, and therefore any element must have a modulus of one - because if an elements didn't have modulus one any power of said element would be a unique, and thus the group would not be finite. Hence every element of the group of invertile elements has the form

[itex]e^{2\pi i \frac {p}{q}}[/itex] where p and q are natural numbers, i.e. their arguments are rational multiples of two pi.

The step the answer takes is this. Assume that q (above) is the lowest common denominator of all the fractions [itex]\frac {p}{q}[/itex] that occur. Then there will be an element [itex]x[/itex] within the group such that

[itex]x = e^{2\pi i \frac {p_0}{q}}[/itex], where [itex]\frac {p_0}{q}[/itex] is in lowest terms, i.e. they are coprime. The proof carries on and I am able to understand the rest.

But the bolded bit, I've embarassingly spent ages on this and don't know how this can be true. Every rational number in the exponent was re-written in the form where the denominator was the LCD of all the exponents of the elements in the group, I understand that. But I don't see how it goes to show that one of the elements is coprime to this said LCD (and as such, was already in the form [itex]\frac {p}{q}[/itex] where q is the LCD, to begin with).

Would it involve writing [itex]p = kq +r[/itex] (r<q) so that every element becomes of the form;

[itex]e^{2\pi i \frac {r}{q}}[/itex] and showing that a combination of elements such as this can produce a [itex]p_0[/itex] which is coprime to [itex]q[/itex]?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
I think the main point is that there must be an element of the group that has the smallest value of |p/q|. If there's no smallest value then it must be infinite, right? If there is a smallest value then you can certainly express it in lowest terms.
 
Dick said:
I think the main point is that there must be an element of the group that has the smallest value of |p/q|. If there's no smallest value then it must be infinite, right? If there is a smallest value then you can certainly express it in lowest terms.

That's certainly true, every term of the form [itex]\frac {p}{q}[/itex] where q is the LCD of all the fractions has a term where [itex]p[/itex] is the lowest. But this lowest [itex]p[/itex] is coprime with [itex]q[/itex] you would say? Why would that be?
 
Silversonic said:
That's certainly true, every term of the form [itex]\frac {p}{q}[/itex] where q is the LCD of all the fractions has a term where [itex]p[/itex] is the lowest. But this lowest [itex]p[/itex] is coprime with [itex]q[/itex] you would say? Why would that be?

For me, the lowest p being coprime with q would come out of the rest of the proof. I'll know that after I know p/q generates the group. I don't think you can just assume it up front.
 
Dick said:
For me, the lowest p being coprime with q would come out of the rest of the proof. I'll know that after I know p/q generates the group. I don't think you can just assume it up front.

Is there any way to prove this bolded bit? I was along those lines myself before looking at the answer, in that the smallest element (by which I mean its arguments is smallest) must generate the whole group. I didn't happen to get anywhere though.

The rest of the proof uses the fact that there exist integers m, n such that

[itex]mp_{0} + nq = 1[/itex]

Then

[itex]x_0^m = e^{2\pi i \frac {mp_0}{q}} = e^{2\pi i \frac {1-nq}{q}} = e^{2\pi i \frac {1}{q}}[/itex]

Hence every element, is of the form

[itex]e^{2\pi i \frac {a}{q}} = x_0^{ma}[/itex]

for some a, i.e. it is generated by x0.
 
Last edited:
Silversonic said:
Is there any way to prove this bolded bit?

The rest of the proof uses the fact that there exist integers m, n such that

[itex]mp_{0} + nq = 1[/itex]

Then

[itex]x_0^m = e^{2\pi i \frac {mp_0}{q}} = e^{2\pi i \frac {1-nq}{q}} = e^{2\pi i \frac {1}{q}}[/itex]

Hence every element, is of the form

[itex]e^{2\pi i \frac {a}{q}} = x_0^{ma}[/itex]

for some a, i.e. it is generated by x0.

I'm not really sure what the proof is up to there. Think about proving it a different way. If ##e^{2\pi i \frac {p}{q}}## doesn't generate the group then there is some other element ##e^{2\pi i r}## in the group. And for some integer k you must have kp/q<r<(k+1)p/q, right? Since it's a group that means ##e^{2\pi i (r-\frac {kp}{q})}## is in the group. But r-kp/q is less than p/q. That would contradict p/q being the smallest number in the group.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K