Group/Representation Theory Help (Summations and elements of a finite group)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around exercises in representation theory, specifically focusing on properties of finite groups and their elements. The original poster is tasked with proving certain identities involving sums over group elements and finding specific elements within a group that satisfy given equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the bijective nature of mappings within the group to prove identities related to sums of group elements.
  • There is a discussion on the implications of one part of the problem on another, particularly how part (i) relates to part (ii).
  • Questions arise regarding the interpretation of part (iii), specifically what it means to find elements in the group that satisfy a certain equation.
  • Some participants suggest using specific examples, such as the symmetric group S_3, to clarify the problem.
  • There is a consideration of modifying elements to meet the criteria set out in the problem.
  • Participants question the validity of potential solutions and explore various approaches to finding the required elements.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and suggestions on how to approach the problems. Some have offered specific examples and modifications to elements, while others are still grappling with the interpretations and implications of the exercises. There is no explicit consensus, but productive lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention constraints related to the clarity of the original problem statement due to formatting issues with LaTeX. Additionally, there is a focus on the properties of group elements and the need to find specific solutions within the context of group algebras.

OMM!
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Apologies, the LaTeX thing doesn't seem to be working, so not very clear!

I am working through a book on representation theory, but am stuck on these exercises.

Homework Statement


Let G be a finite group and let E = Sum g (running over all g in G).

(i) Prove: Ex = E (forall x in G)
(ii) Prove: E^{2} = nE (|G| = n)
(iii) Find 3 e_{i} in G s.t. (e_{i})^{2} = e_{i} (forall i = 1,2,3)

Homework Equations


Unknown


The Attempt at a Solution


(i) In order to show that Ex = E, we must show that there is a bijection that maps from G to G which sends g to gx for all g in G. Must show that this map is surjective and injective to show it is bijective. Little bit stuck on showing these.

(ii) I am told that part (ii) requires part (i). Am I correct in thinking that E^{2} = (Sum {running over elements of G} (Sum {running over elements of G} g))? Basically the sum of the sum! (Sorry LaTeX working would make this far easier to explain!)

(iii) Again, part (iii) requires part (ii), but I'm not even quite sure what I'm being asked to show. Is it simply that there are 3 elements in the finite group G that when squared are equal to themselves?

Thanks for any help.
 
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Hi OMM! :smile:

First, can you tell me what book you're reading? Question 3 makes little sense to me, so I must be misunderstanding something. I'd like to read it from the original source.

OMM! said:
Apologies, the LaTeX thing doesn't seem to be working, so not very clear!

I am working through a book on representation theory, but am stuck on these exercises.

Homework Statement


Let G be a finite group and let E = Sum g (running over all g in G).

(i) Prove: Ex = E (forall x in G)
(ii) Prove: E^{2} = nE (|G| = n)
(iii) Find 3 e_{i} in G s.t. (e_{i})^{2} = e_{i} (forall i = 1,2,3)

Homework Equations


Unknown

The Attempt at a Solution


(i) In order to show that Ex = E, we must show that there is a bijection that maps from G to G which sends g to gx for all g in G. Must show that this map is surjective and injective to show it is bijective. Little bit stuck on showing these.

Indeed, you must show that

\phi:G\rightarrow G:g\rightarrow xg

is bijective. For injectivity, you must show that

\phi(g)=\phi(g^\prime)~\Rightarrow~g=g^\prime

or thus

xg=xg^\prime~\Rightarrow~g=g^\prime

Can you show this??

Do something analogous for surjectivity.

(ii) I am told that part (ii) requires part (i). Am I correct in thinking that E^{2} = (Sum {running over elements of G} (Sum {running over elements of G} g))? Basically the sum of the sum! (Sorry LaTeX working would make this far easier to explain!)

So you'll need to calculate

\left(\sum_{g\in G}{g}\right)\left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right)=\left(\sum_{g\in G}{g\left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right)}\right)

Now apply (1).

If you don't see something immediately, then it might be worth to consider a little example like \mathbb{Z}_2...
 
micromass said:
Hi OMM! :smile:

First, can you tell me what book you're reading? Question 3 makes little sense to me, so I must be misunderstanding something. I'd like to read it from the original source.

Hi it's "Representations & Characters Of Groups" by Liebeck & James. Although the questions aren't from there, they were set for me to help me understand irreducible CG submodules and CG algebras a bit better! As I'm struggling here on this! Aghhh!



Indeed, you must show that

\phi:G\rightarrow G:g\rightarrow xg

is bijective. For injectivity, you must show that

\phi(g)=\phi(g^\prime)~\Rightarrow~g=g^\prime

or thus

xg=xg^\prime~\Rightarrow~g=g^\prime

Can you show this??

Do something analogous for surjectivity.

Thanks, I can see the injectivity solution. Simply multiply on the left of both sides by x^{-1}, which is an element of G as x clearly is. And thus you get the required one-to-one property.

For surjectivity, do I need to show that there's an element, which when it has \phi applied to it, I get g? i.e. 1/x?


So you'll need to calculate

\left(\sum_{g\in G}{g}\right)\left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right)=\left(\sum_{g\in G}{g\left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right)}\right)

Now apply (1).

Clearly here we're setting \left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right) = x and it is running over the n elements of G, so we're applying Ex = E "n times" to get E^{2} = n.E?


If you don't see something immediately, then it might be worth to consider a little example like \mathbb{Z}_2...

Thanks for your help, I'll consider using this simplification, to see if it makes things clearer!
 
OMM! said:
Thanks, I can see the injectivity solution. Simply multiply on the left of both sides by x^{-1}, which is an element of G as x clearly is. And thus you get the required one-to-one property.

For surjectivity, do I need to show that there's an element, which when it has \phi applied to it, I get g? i.e. 1/x?

Fix g. What value y must I take such that xy=g?
Clearly here we're setting \left(\sum_{g^\prime\in G}{g^\prime}\right) = x and it is running over the n elements of G, so we're applying Ex = E "n times" to get E^{2} = n.E?

Yes, that's basically it. Here is the same argument in symbols:

E^2=\left(\sum_{g\in G}{g}\right)E=\left(\sum_{g\in G}{gE}\right)=\left(\sum_{g\in G}{E}\right)=|G|\cdot E
 
I managed to get a bit more information about part (iii) and I was told to use a specific example of S_3, the symmetric group of order 6.

(iii) asks to find 3 solutions to the equation (e_i)^{2} = e_i inside the group algebra C[S_3].

where C = complex numbers.

I guess the identity element is clearly 1 such element. However, finding the other 2 appears to be a mystery to me!
 
Well, you've found out that e_1=1 satisfies the criterium.
Now, what if I take e_2=E, then we have e_2^2=E^2=nE=ne_2^2. This doesn't satisfy what we want, but perhaps we can modify our e_2so that it does give what we want.

For example, we could take e_2=cE with c a certain complex number. What complex number could we take such that e_2^2=e_2?
 
micromass said:
Well, you've found out that e_1=1 satisfies the criterium.
Now, what if I take e_2=E, then we have e_2^2=E^2=nE=ne_2^2. This doesn't satisfy what we want, but perhaps we can modify our e_2so that it does give what we want.

For example, we could take e_2=cE with c a certain complex number. What complex number could we take such that e_2^2=e_2?

Thanks for your help! After a bit of trial and error, I can see we could take c = 1/n and that would satisfy for e_2!

So we now have e_1 = 1 and e_2 = (1/n)E

For e_3 I assumed we'd take a complex conjugate of "c" or (1/-n), but that obviously won't work as we end up with: e_3^2=-e_3. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
What about taking the zero element?
 

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