Handling Particles: A Non-Physicist's Query

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the handling and manipulation of subatomic particles and atoms, particularly in the context of particle accelerators. Participants explore the nature of atomic theory, the visibility of particles, and the methods used to manipulate charged particles in experiments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • A participant questions how it is possible to handle and accelerate particles that are smaller than visible light waves and not directly observable.
  • Another participant clarifies that particle accelerators typically do not use single particles for collisions, but rather charged particles or ions, which can be manipulated using electromagnetic fields.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the physical handling of particles, emphasizing the theoretical nature of atomic models and questioning how such entities can be manipulated.
  • In response, a participant challenges the notion that atomic models are purely theoretical, citing the real-world implications of radiation and the limitations of human perception in detecting particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of atomic models, with some emphasizing their theoretical aspects while others argue for their practical implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of how particles are physically handled.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in human perception and the challenges in defining the reality of atomic structures, indicating a dependence on theoretical models and experimental methods.

SaulC
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This might seem to be a silly question to some. Please understand I'm no physicist.

I've been watching a series on electromagnetism, energy, matter in general, for the general public. Nowhere can I find an answer to this simple question: if atoms and everything inside of them are smaller than the smallest light waves we can see, if no one has ever seen an atom, if the Atomic Theory is merely a (pretty good) description of how matter behaves, if the familiar image of electrons spinning around a nucleus is a useful model rather than the thing itself, how on Earth is it possible to place a single particle inside a particle accelerator, make it go several times around the block and see what happens when it collides with another, precisely placed, particle? How can you pick up, handle, place & accelerate an atom? Or a subatomic particle?

Thanks.
 
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SaulC said:
This might seem to be a silly question to some. Please understand I'm no physicist.

I've been watching a series on electromagnetism, energy, matter in general, for the general public. Nowhere can I find an answer to this simple question: if atoms and everything inside of them are smaller than the smallest light waves we can see, if no one has ever seen an atom, if the Atomic Theory is merely a (pretty good) description of how matter behaves, if the familiar image of electrons spinning around a nucleus is a useful model rather than the thing itself, how on Earth is it possible to place a single particle inside a particle accelerator, make it go several times around the block and see what happens when it collides with another, precisely placed, particle? How can you pick up, handle, place & accelerate an atom? Or a subatomic particle?

Thanks.

We NEVER place "a single particle" in an accelerator and make it collide with another. That is a very wasteful way of doing high energy physics experiment.

If you look carefully, ALL of the particle collider experiments have been done on CHARGED particles or ions, not neutral atoms. We guide, manipulate, and handle them using electromagnetic field (RF) with a particular geometry because they interact with such fields.

Zz.
 
Thank you for your reply. I wasn't necessarily making the distinction between a charged particle and a neutral atom, I was rather wondering how you could "handle" something like that. And I still don't get it. From what I've learned, the nucleus of an atom is a theoretical model which can make consistent and accurate predictions, but which no one has ever seen. How do you handle, or manipulate physically, something like that?
 
SaulC said:
Thank you for your reply. I wasn't necessarily making the distinction between a charged particle and a neutral atom, I was rather wondering how you could "handle" something like that. And I still don't get it. From what I've learned, the nucleus of an atom is a theoretical model which can make consistent and accurate predictions, but which no one has ever seen. How do you handle, or manipulate physically, something like that?

Who said that these are only "theoretical model"? Where do you get these impressions from? I can shoot at you alpha particles (which are helium nuclei) and considered to be a form of radiation. When you end up with cancer, do you think this is purely "theoretical"?

Note that "seeing" with your eyes is a very POOR way to indicate something that is "real". Your eyes not only have a finite resolution, but also have a very finite range of detection in the EM spectrum. There are way better way to detect something that using your eyes.

Zz.
 
Thank you for your time.
 

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