A Has the Riemann hypothesis been proven?

nrqed
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I am very baffled.

I have heard through the grapevine that the Riemann hypothesis has been proven. My first reaction was of course to dismiss it as yet another failed attempt by someone who was not careful or by a crackpot, or some type of April's fool joke made a few months late.But what I read was this is a claim made by none other than Sir Atiyah himself and that he is planning to give a talk next week. So *if* the statement is true that it is a claim made by Atiyah, then it is of course an extremely serious and possibly correct solution.

But I thought the web would be buzzing with this, especially here. So does anyone know more about this??
 
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Sir Atiyah is 89 years old, so with all necessary respect for this great mathematician, I'd be cautious.
 
fresh_42 said:
Sir Atiyah is 89 years old, so with all necessary respect for this great mathematician, I'd be cautious.
I know and it was indeed part of the reason for my skepticism.
 
Google news found nothing, and a local magazine which usually publishes those news as soon as they are on the news teleprinter neither. Example: "Super Earth in the constellation Eridanus - Is this the home planet of Mr Spock?" - just to support that they would have written about it.
 
fresh_42 said:
Google news found nothing, and a local magazine which usually publishes those news as soon as they are on the news teleprinter neither. Example: "Super Earth in the constellation Eridanus - Is this the home planet of Mr Spock?" - just to support that they would have written about it.
Ah, ok. Thank you. That would explain the near silence...
 
Here is part of the abstract
For every proof of a famous theorem there are usually several attempts that turn out to be flawed. So let's see. He will present what he has, then hundreds of mathematicians will check every step. The most likely result is a critical mistake somewhere, a good result is some gaps that can be fixed in the following year(s), a great result is a full proof, and the best possible result is a full proof that leads to insights way beyond the Riemann hypothesis.

Livestream here, probably
September 25.
https://www.heidelberg-laureate-forum.org/event_2018/. I guess it is one of the "hot topics", starting 13:30 (11:30 UTC) and 15:30 (13:30 UTC).
 
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Would be interesting to see, whether this would affect the (theoretical) decoding of RSA and therewith has consequences for NP.
 
I caught wind of this announcement with half an ear and wanted to look up on it.
Found this . Among other news, the candidate solution for the abc conjecture is determined to be flawed.

As for Sir Atiyah's proposition. He is an aged man - I can't help but be skeptical, especially considering the sensational claim that it is a 'simple proof' within our 'mainstream technique' with a 'radically new approach'. I mean, that has to set off some alarms, right? On the other hand, it would be astonishing beyond any sensible description if a nearly 90 year old person presents correct proof for one of the most elusive problems.

Exciting, for sure.
 
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mfb said:
Here is part of the abstract
For every proof of a famous theorem there are usually several attempts that turn out to be flawed. So let's see. He will present what he has, then hundreds of mathematicians will check every step. The most likely result is a critical mistake somewhere, a good result is some gaps that can be fixed in the following year(s), a great result is a full proof, and the best possible result is a full proof that leads to insights way beyond the Riemann hypothesis.

Livestream here, probably
September 25.
https://www.heidelberg-laureate-forum.org/event_2018/. I guess it is one of the "hot topics", starting 13:30 (11:30 UTC) and 15:30 (13:30 UTC).
Thanks for the links. But what I heard was that the talk would be on Monday at 9:30, the very first talk.

I live in Canada but I will probably get up in the middle of the night to watch this, if it is streamed live. It might be a storm in a glass of water (as we say in French), but if it turns out to be correct, it will be one of the most important, if not the most important, event in pure math in a century, in my humble opinion. I think it would have more profound impact on math than the proof of Fermat's last theorem. Something on par with the discovery of the Higgs (although this might be comparing oranges and apples).
 
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  • #10
Is the talk really going to happen? How credible are the sources? It isn't that hard to fake an abstract and a talk announcement.
 
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  • #12
mfb said:
Yes it is going to happen
https://www.heidelberg-laureate-forum.org/social-media/
If Atiyah's idea will be proven correct, whether on the first draft or even after major additional contributions by others doesn't matter, then I will have to add him to the list I associate with Heidelberg. Beside military information and the inevitable tun, there is only Mark Twain on the list.
 
  • #13
Personally I just filed it away as interesting - but likely wrong. If it is correct I am 100% certain Terry Tao will discuss it in his blog - that's when I will take notice and try to understand at least some of the details.

Thanks
Bill
 
  • #14
Hardy sent a postcard to a friend, when he was on a boat trip, claiming that he had a proof of the Riemann hypothesis. The idea being that the boat won't sink, surely god would not allow him to get the same fame as Fermat. So, does anyone know if Atiyah is traveling this weekend? :wink:
 
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  • #15
martinbn said:
So, does anyone know if Atiyah is traveling this weekend? :wink:
To Heidelberg, I guess.
 
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  • #16
While talking about RH, I'm probably very late to the party with this (Polson, June 2018), but does anyone know if this has received some criticism? Can't find any specifics other than the article itself.
 
  • #17
martinbn said:
Hardy sent a postcard to a friend, when he was on a boat trip, claiming that he had a proof of the Riemann hypothesis. The idea being that the boat won't sink, surely god would not allow him to get the same fame as Fermat. So, does anyone know if Atiyah is traveling this weekend? :wink:

The flaw in Hardy's argument was, of course, that God could simply have disposed of the postcard.
 
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  • #18
nuuskur said:
While talking about RH, I'm probably very late to the party with this (Polson, June 2018), but does anyone know if this has received some criticism? Can't find any specifics other than the article itself.
I assume there are several reasons for the apparently disregard of the publication, one could be

On Hilbert’s 8th problem
Article in Brazilian Journal of Probability and Statistics
32(3):670-678 · August 2018 with 4 Reads
DOI: 10.1214/18-BJPS392

or at least has similar causes. Polson submitted 15(!) versions to arxiv.org. My personal impression is, that he enforced his personal area of expertise on the problem regardless of its suitability. And a continuation argument of a family of expectation values as main step of he proof doesn't sound very trustful. On a quick view I could see a lot of computations to make the problem fit into his stochastic language, but I couldn't see, where some truth is generated. Especially at the crucial point, where he claims
Finally, the Laplace transform, ##E(exp(−sH^\xi_{\frac{1}{2}}))##, of a GGC distribution, is analytic in the whole complex plane cut along the negative real axis, and, in particular, it cannot have any singularities in that cut plane.
there is neither a reference to a location within his paper nor to someone else's. I would start here to look for a flaw. The arxiv.org paper doesn't quote the publication above, neither does it have any endorsements: https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.02653

Here's his other paper which is a follow up of his argument on: https://arxiv.org/abs/1806.07964 (6 versions, 0 endorsements), and at least he cites, where the expectation value comes from, however, again without mention of its analycity.

But I want to explicitly state, that the above is a personal opinion and easily could be wrong. In any case, there seems to be more proofs around than I thought: here's another one by Frank Stenger: https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.01209 (Aug. 17 - Feb. 18) and one, which even covers the GRH, too, by Vladimir Blinovsky https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.03827 (Mar. 17 - Aug. 18)
 
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  • #19
mfb said:
To Heidelberg, I guess.
Let's hope he will travel the last 100 km from the airport to the city by train and not by car!
 
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  • #22
I'm always somewhat weary of computer demonstrations of real numbers and infinite series, given the mantissa issue.

But yeah, that doesn't sound too good at all.
 
  • #24
I just made a thread, "Atiyah's arithmetic physics", for discussing the physical aspect of his current ideas (which may in fact be the dominant aspect).
 
  • #25
mitchell porter said:
I just made a thread, "Atiyah's arithmetic physics", for discussing the physical aspect of his current ideas (which may in fact be the dominant aspect).
Are you sure we shouldn't merge the two threads? IMO they are too closely related to justify two of them.
 
  • #26
If it wasn't for the name of the author I would say crackpot after the first two sentences and not bother any further.
 
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  • #27
fresh_42 said:
Are you sure we shouldn't merge the two threads? IMO they are too closely related to justify two of them.
Atiyah's Arithmetic physics - while directly mentioned as a result of his talk/paper - is a physical theory, while the topic of this thread is the discussion of (the event of) Atiyah's purported proof of the RH.

That should be enough to justify a discussion on that physics topic alone... however for the moment, whether that physical theory exists or not seems to be all dependent upon his proof being correct, which is obviously what this thread is about.
 
  • #28
martinbn said:
If it wasn't for the name of the author I would say crackpot after the first two sentences and not bother any further.
I remember a guest lecture from Konrad Zuse in the late 80's. The whole auditorium was packed and everybody wanted to hear some of those stories from the past. Instead, he spoke about his current scientific work which was, sad to say this, neither interesting nor relevant. The entire event was quite embarrassing in the end.

Some people on the internet blamed the organization for allowing this to happen. Well, I had to think about the fact that we allow some persons even far more critical access to highly dangerous weapons without any checks on their mental status. I guess the reason is a similar one: nobody in town dares to tell the king that his new clothes don't exist and he stands there naked.
 
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  • #29
Auto-Didact said:
I'm always somewhat weary of computer demonstrations of real numbers and infinite series, given the mantissa issue.

But yeah, that doesn't sound too good at all.
The integral has an exact solution and it is trivial to check the quick convergence of the series. If the value would differ at the 10th decimal place: Sure, who knows how reliable that is. But it is off by a factor of 1000. This is not a rounding issue. The formula is completely wrong.
 
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  • #30
nrqed said:
I am very baffled.

But what I read was this is a claim made by none other than Sir Atiyah himself and that he is planning to give a talk next week. So *if* the statement is true that it is a claim made by Atiyah, then it is of course an extremely serious and probably correct solution.

But I thought the web would be buzzing with this, especially here. So does anyone know more about this??
What happened with checking a proof for its contents and not its author?!
 
  • #31
MathematicalPhysicist said:
What happened with checking a proof for its contents and not its author?!
Quod licet jovis non licet bovis.
 
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  • #32
fresh_42 said:
Quod licet jovis non licet bovis.
Bullshit! Everyone should be scrutinized for their work and not for who they are.
 
  • #33
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Bullshit! Everyone should be scrutinized for their work and not for who they are.
Of course, and in this case the author has done a lot of important work over the decades.
 
  • #34
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Bullshit! Everyone should be scrutinized for their work and not for who they are.
That's not how the world works, despite the French revolutions. And it isn't b.s. If Atiyah writes a proof and you do for the same theorem, guess which one I will read!
 
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  • #35
fresh_42 said:
Quod licet jovis non licet bovis.
Capital letters please when naming a deity :cool:
 
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  • #37
Auto-Didact said:
Capital letters please when naming a deity :cool:
And it should have been an "I", sorry.
 
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  • #38
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Bullshit! Everyone should be scrutinized for their work and not for who they are.
fresh_42 said:
That's not how the world works, despite the French revolutions. And it isn't b.s. If Atiyah writes a proof and you do for the same theorem, guess which one I will read!
Here we witness the empirical verification of Hume's law in vivo.
 
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  • #39
fresh_42 said:
Quod licet jovis non licet bovis.
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Bullshit!
I'll admit, it's a pretty clever translation :DD
 
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  • #41
My guess is that he is writing crackpot papers on purpose, as an experiment. Checking if people will take them seriously, or at least give them some attention, just because they come from a famous mathematician.
 
  • #42
For those who still want to see it:
 
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  • #43
martinbn said:
My guess is that he is writing crackpot papers on purpose, as an experiment. Checking if people will take them seriously, or at least give them some attention, just because they come from a famous mathematician.
This would at least be in the best tradition of English humor, but I seriously doubt it.
 
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  • #44
martinbn said:
My guess is that he is writing crackpot papers on purpose, as an experiment. Checking if people will take them seriously, or at least give them some attention, just because they come from a famous mathematician.
After having watched his lecture and read most of his preprint (The Fine Structure Constant), I'm convinced the man is dead serious. I'm not particularly fond of the manner in which many younger people (read: mathematicians, students and just a while bunch of random people on the internet) seem to be patronizing him.

Even if everything Atiyah claims regarding the RH is false, they probably still aren't fit to untie his sandals; there is a reason you don't see the likes of Tao and Schulze making such remarks about the man for they understand that sometimes silence can be golden.
 
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  • #45
Auto-Didact said:
... there is a reason you don't see the likes of Tao and Schulze making such remarks ...
So true. I find it far more interesting to discuss, why Polson (Chicago), Stenger (Salt Lake City) or Blinovsky (Moscow) aren't discussed, although all of them published a proof on arxiv.org recently - and all of them are mathematicians.
 
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  • #46
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Bullshit! Everyone should be scrutinized for their work and not for who they are.
I apologize if I have insulted people by putting weight on the fact that the claim of a proof had been made by someone who has earned both a Fields medal and an Abel prize. Seriously, I understand... I recall being annoyed by someone who used to post thousands of posts discussing more the affiliations of authors of papers, who they had worked with, who their supervisors were, where they had done their postdocs and on and on, than their actual work.
 
  • #47
nrqed said:
I apologize if I have insulted people by putting weight on the fact that the claim of a proof had been made by someone who has earned both a Fields medal and an Abel prize.
We need to put weight on the claims of such people in an intellectual community such as academia; what else are these prizes good for if not to publicize the towering proven intellect of these remarkable individuals? It is no coincidence that although tonnes of people, many of them even extremely skilled experts, work in mathematics and physics today, not just anyone of the experts is or can be regarded as a Newton, a Gauss or a von Neumann. This can be encapsulated in the difference between being capable of inventing calculus in the 1600s by yourself with no clear precedent and merely being able to do calculus, after being spoonfed a rigorous theory of calculus in undergraduate mathematics courses.

Moreover, this doesn't seem to be that well of a known fact among scientists and mathematicians generally (there are notable exceptions), but there is even a striking statistical demonstration (NB: first discovered empirically in the social sciences (!) and then generalized mathematically) which justifies this argument, namely that for any valuable skill(set) which one can be better at then some other and the results of which are generally valued by others, there exists a distribution such that the most valued results produced by all practitioners of such a skill is disproportionately produced by a small subset of the entire population of practitioners; among that small subpopulation of skilled people the same thing holds again i.e. an even smaller subset in approximately the same proportion is again responsible for the production of the large majority of the most valued results.

What this means in this discussion is that there are some scientific works that are much more read than others, generally indicating their superior perceived value, and a small number of works which practically everyone has read. For those who already do know this, they will recognize immediately that I am speaking about none other than the Zipf-Pareto principle which can be described by a very simple power law and/or further mathematicized into a very special kind of probability distribution; what most people (probably) do not yet know is that there is even an elegant piece of pure mathematics underlying the scale-invariant self-similarity of this ubiquitously occurring distribution, which ties together the mathematics underlying probability theory, modern network theory, fractal geometry and (nonlinear) dynamical systems theory among others, but I digress.

To get back to my point, Sir Michael Atiyah is exactly the towering kind of intellect, that has shaped not just the physics and mathematics of his time but an entire generation of thinkers probably in more ways than they can or indeed do realize; Edward Witten for heaven's sake is directly among the man's mathematical offspring. To even try and compare yourself, let alone put your mind above his, would mean that you are not merely some celebrated expert in a particular field of mathematics such as algebraic geometry, but simultaneously an expert in mathematical physics, having contributed to countless related mathematical fields and having almost 70 years of experience of being an expert and letting all that knowledge and experience shape his thoughts; just try and let that thought sink in for a moment.

Mathematicians like Atiyah are a class apart from pedestrians such as you and me, who are literally runts trying to mimic the gods themselves; although the gods may be fallible, so much more can we be. Not being able to recognize the limits of one's own intellect is a very common fault and feature of those not lucky enough to be counted as part of the pantheon (yet). The only living public figures in science I can even think of who are somewhat properly comparable to Atiyah, and I say this with very much a reserved judgement, are themselves lone stellar intellects, namely Roger Penrose and Gerard 't Hooft; anyone who knows anything about the average scientists' perception of these two distinguished gentlemen will fully understand that it is the shame of our generation, as it is of those before them, that we do not venerate our heroes more during their life.

It is in this respect that especially scientists can still learn an awful lot (both good and bad) from the general public, i.e. ordinary citizens of the world: publically celebrating the birthdays of our living heroes en masse for example wherein we celebrate both their life and work, instead of only suddenly finding the inspiration to publically appreciate their life and work when their death is announced, while in the meantime pushing nonsensical trends such as Pi Day in a hopeless effort to try and connect with the public; a real and honest public display of affection from scientists for their own heroes would do very much for the public appreciation and dissemination of science. To end on a positive note, here is a piece about another mathematical giant, written posthumously by Atiyah: a tribute to Hermann Weyl. I just hope that others will show the same kind of care and respect for Atiyah, not just after he has gone and left us, but more importantly while he is still with us.
 
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  • #48
I think he is making bold statements because he doesn't think there is much time ahead for him. So, he is pushing the ball and claiming a proof so that people may think more about the direction he is pointing to. He is using a type of language and inspiration that is more keen to Physicists. I don't think he is expecting much from Mathematicians, as there is not enough time for such formalities.
 
  • #49
mfb said:
There were two google drive documents shared that were supposedly Atiyah's work. Here someone used it to calculate the fine-structure constant, and the result is horribly wrong.
I read the first paper where the equations are from. This entire reddit thread is a bit disingenuous or rather quite misleading to say the least, because they use Eq 1.1 and 7.1 to perform the calculation, while Atiyah clearly states that to calculate ##\alpha## the equations in section 8 are required. Now admittedly, the text is difficult to penetrate... however, be that as it may, that in no way justifies carrying out a strawman calculation and then declaring the whole thing to then be wrong.

The explicit series is explained in section 8, specifically 8.1 through 8.6, while the actual explicit function is given in 8.11 based on some Bernoulli polynomial in 8.10; I agree that the presentation of the series given here is a bit opaque, but having reread the entire thing a second time certainly helps, especially after having listened to the talk with slides.

This infinite series is, in contrast to the more familiar infinite sums and infinite products, an infinite exponentiation, i.e. something of the form ##2^2^2^2^2^...##. I've definitely seen iterated exponents before but I am simply not that familiar with infinitely iterated exponents and under what conditions and circumstances they can be said to converge in general or not. In either case, Atiyah claims something about the whole thing being convergent if 8.7 and 8.8 are arbitrarily close, with fixed ##t ^m## given ##t## is sufficiently small.

Atiyah tries to explain it himself a bit further in the text:
page 13 said:
We can describe what we are doing in the following way. Given any number ##2^n##, we can factor it as a product of two numbers ##2^{n(0)}2^{n(1)}##where ##n = n(0) + n(1)##. As ##n## gets larger, we keep ##n(0)## fixed, say ##n(0) = 4##, and let ##n(1)## get larger. This describes our chosen algorithm and explains the shift by 4 with ##t(n) = v(n + 4)##. This will give the correct 12 digits. When we increase n, to improve on the approximations ##Ж(n)## we will have to increase ##n(0)## and ##n(1)##, but we cannot be sure of their optimal values. However, since our sequences are monotonic increasing, we can adopt the stopping rule : stop one step before the product ##(8.7)## exceeds the sum ##(8.8)##. This can be formalized in terms of the Bernoulli numbers ##B^n_k## of higher order which, as explained below, are essentially Hirzebruch’s Todd polynomials.
 
  • #50
Auto-Didact said:
while Atiyah clearly states that to calculate ##\alpha## the equations in section 8 are required.
That is a contradiction. We get two unambiguous formulas, one to calculate "ch" and one to calculate the fine-structure constant based on "ch". Why would you need anything else if the formulas were correct?

If I ask you to find x, and tell you that 2+5=x, do you need to read section 8 of my post to find x? Section 8 might have a different way to do so (in this case it is unclear what section 8 actually suggests to do), but surely it should give the same result.
 
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