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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a wheel rolling over a hill, with a focus on calculating its speed at a certain height below the top. The context is rotational motion, specifically examining energy conservation principles in a mechanical system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of energy conservation, questioning the initial conditions and the correct treatment of potential and kinetic energy. There are attempts to derive the speed using different height values and energy equations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided alternative approaches that led to the correct answer, while others express confusion about the reasoning behind adding height instead of subtracting it. The discussion reflects a mix of interpretations and attempts to clarify the underlying concepts.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing exploration of assumptions regarding initial kinetic energy and potential energy at different heights. Participants are navigating through the implications of these assumptions on their calculations.

Shuo Xue
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Homework Statement


[/B]
A wheel, of radius 200mm, rolls over the top of a hill with a speed of 20m/s and negligible friction losses. (I = 1/2mr^2)

Homework Equations


[/B]
Find the speed of the wheel when it is 10m below the top.

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
mgh = 1/2mv^2 + 1/2IW^2

W= v/r

mgh = 1/2mv^2 + 1/2(1/2mr^2)(v/r)^2
mgh = 1/2mv^2 + 1/4mv^2
gh = 3/4mv^2
v^2 = 4gh/3
v^2 = 4(9.81)(10)/3
v = 11.4m/s

I got v = 11.4 m/s
but my answer is incorrect as it is different from the answer given which is 23m/s.
I want to know the correct solution.

I've also tried searching for the height first.

h = (3/4v^2)/g
h = 30.58m

and then 10m below from the top

h = 20.58m

v^2 = 4gh/3
v^2 = 4(9.81)(20.58)/3
v = 16.41m/s

Which is still far from the answer also.
 
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h = 30.58m

I tried adding 10m to h instead of subtracting 10m

so, h = 40.58

v^2 = 4gh/3
v^2 = 4(9.81)(40.58)/3
v = 23m/s

Doing it this way, I got the correct answer.
 
Shuo Xue said:
I tried adding 10m to h instead of subtracting 10m
Do you now understand why that is correct?
 
The wheel is already rolling on the top of a hill
my mistake is I assume the initial kinetic energy is 0 but it is actually not.
So initial energy is mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/2IW^2mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/4mv^2 = 1/2mv^2 + 1/4mv^2

gh + 1/2v^2 + 1/4v^2 = 1/2v^2 + 1/4v^2

gh + 3/4v^2 = 3/4v^2

(9.81)(10) + (3/4)(20)^2 = 3/4v^2

398.1 = 3/4v^2

v^2 = 4(398.1)/3
v^2 = 530.8
v = 23m/s

Here is another way to answer the question.
This solution is more understandable for me than the earlier solution.
 
haruspex said:
Do you now understand why that is correct?

Although I got the correct answer for that, I still don't understand why do I have to add 10m to the height that I got instead of subtracting 10m to it.
 
I also cannot assume that the final potential energy is 0 so

I think this is the most understandable solution.

mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/2IW^2 = mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/2IW^2

mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/2mv^2 = mgh + 1/2mv^2 + 1/2mv^2

gh + 3/4v^2 = gh + 3/4v^2

(9.81)(30.58) + (3/4)(20^2) = (9.81)(20.58) + 3/4v^2

(9.81)(30.58) - (9.81)(20.58) + 300 = 3/4v^2

3/4v^2 = (9.81)(30.58-20.58) + 300

3/4v^2 = (9.81)(10) + 300

3/4v^2 = 398.1
v^2 = 530.8
v = 23m/s
 

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