Hawking's Position on Repeating Big Bang

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Stephen Hawking's position on the concept of a repeating Big Bang, particularly his assertion that the universe began at a singularity and has likely occurred only once. Participants explore the implications of this view, the assumptions underlying Hawking and Penrose's work, and the evidence supporting their claims, while also considering competing models and theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Hawking's evidence includes the age of the universe and the number and maturity of observed galaxies, suggesting these fit his model of a singular Big Bang.
  • Others argue that Hawking's assertion relies on assumptions about gravity being described by General Relativity (GR) and certain energy conditions, which may not hold true in all scenarios, particularly with inflationary models.
  • It is mentioned that the assumptions made by Hawking and Penrose could be challenged by quantum theories of gravity, which may predict a bounce rather than a singularity.
  • A later reply questions how the age of the universe and the characteristics of galaxies can definitively prove that the Big Bang is a singular occurrence, expressing skepticism about the assumptions involved.
  • Participants discuss the implications of Penrose's evolving views, including his suggestion of a cyclic universe that does not violate the original assumptions but introduces a novel effect he refers to as rescaling.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus among participants. Multiple competing views remain regarding the validity of Hawking's claims, the assumptions underlying them, and the existence of alternative models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the assumptions made by Hawking and Penrose, particularly regarding the implications of inflation and quantum gravity theories. The discussion reflects uncertainty about how these factors influence the interpretation of the Big Bang and its recurrence.

David_Baratheon
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What is the evidence for Hawking's statement here:

"After giving a brief historical background on relativistic physics and cosmology, Hawking discussed the idea of a repeating Big Bang. He noted that in the 1980s, he and physicist Roger Penrose proved the universe could not “bounce” when it contracted, as had been theorized.

Therefore, time began at the moment of singularity, and this has likely occurred only once, Hawking said. The age of the universe — now believed to be about 13.8 billion years — fits that model, as the number and maturity of observed galaxies seem to fit in the general scheme."


http://www.space.com/20710-stephen-hawking-god-big-bang.html
 
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He tells you the evidence: "The age of the universe ... the number and maturity of observed galaxies ...".

To get the details you've have to hunt through Hawking and Penrose published papers from the 80's.
He's basically asserting that the Universe has physics consistent with being bounded at "the start".
The model he was addressing appears to be the Lynds or Poplawski style one where the Universe never reaches the singualrity.
Hawking has his own ideas about the start of time.
There are other models.
 
Last edited:
Hawking and Penrose have two assumptions 1 , gravity is described by GR and 2 matter/energy satisfies certain energy conditions.
Assumption 2 is violated by inflation, although Borde Guth and Vilenkin argue that you will still get a singularity despite this.
But assumption 1 is challenged by quantum theories of gravity that do predict a bounce.
Intersentingly Penrose now thinks the universe is cyclic but via neither assumptions being violated , rather its through a novel affect he calls rescaling.
 
Simon Bridge said:
He tells you the evidence: "The age of the universe ... the number and maturity of observed galaxies ...".

To get the details you've have to hunt through Hawking and Penrose published papers from the 80's.
He's basically asserting that the Universe has physics consistent with being bounded at "the start".
The model he was addressing appears to be the Lynds or Poplawski style one where the Universe never reaches the singualrity.
Hawking has his own ideas about the start of time.
There are other models.

How does the age of the universe of the number and maturity of observed galaxies prove that the big bang only occurs once?

Telling me to hunt through his papers isn't very helpful :-)

So what your saying is that he assumes that the universal constants are the same from t=0 to now? Why would that mean that the big bang is a singular occurrence?

I appreciate that there are other models but that doesn't help me with my question :-) nor does it discredit his view
 
skydivephil said:
Hawking and Penrose have two assumptions 1 , gravity is described by GR and 2 matter/energy satisfies certain energy conditions.
Assumption 2 is violated by inflation, although Borde Guth and Vilenkin argue that you will still get a singularity despite this.
But assumption 1 is challenged by quantum theories of gravity that do predict a bounce.
Intersentingly Penrose now thinks the universe is cyclic but via neither assumptions being violated , rather its through a novel affect he calls rescaling.

How does a nonrecurring big bang assume gravity = GR? I haven't heard of g=GR to be honest, that is new to me. 2 Which certain conditions?

How is assumption 1 challenged by quantum theories and how do quantum theories predict a bounce?
 

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