Heat Transferred to a Falling Object

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the amount of energy transferred as heat to an ice cube dropped from 30,000 feet in the atmosphere. Participants explore the factors influencing heat transfer, including drag force, air temperature, and potential phase changes of the ice cube, while considering the complexities of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes calculating the energy transferred as heat using the formula Work = (Drag Force) x (Displacement through atmosphere), and suggests comparing this to the energy required to raise the temperature of the ice and melt it.
  • Another participant counters that the air can heat up instead of the ice cube, questioning the initial approach.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of evaporation, noting that the energy required for phase changes complicates the problem, and suggests that the gravitational potential energy may not be sufficient to melt the ice cube.
  • Participants discuss the importance of knowing the air temperature and density at 30,000 feet, as well as the heat transfer coefficient between the air and the object.
  • One participant emphasizes that atmospheric conditions, such as temperature variations, can significantly affect the analysis.
  • It is noted that at 30,000 feet, temperatures are approximately -50°C, which could impact the heat transfer dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the heat transfer dynamics, with some emphasizing the role of air heating versus the ice cube heating. There is no consensus on the best approach to solve the problem, and multiple competing views remain regarding the factors involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions about air temperature and density, the complexity of heat transfer mechanisms, and the unresolved calculations regarding energy transfer and phase changes.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying heat transfer, atmospheric science, or related fields, particularly in understanding the dynamics of energy transfer in free-fall scenarios.

Comeback City
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If I was attempting to calculate the amount of energy transferred as heat to an object free-falling in the atmosphere, is this how I could go about it?...

Work = (Drag Force) x (Displacement through atmosphere) = Energy transferred as Heat

I am attempting to solve a hypothetical question which goes, if a small ice cube is dropped from 30,000 feet in the air, will it melt before it hits the ground? After finding the energy transferred to the ice cube, I would calculate the amount of energy (using specific heat of H2O) required to both raise the temperature of the ice to 0 degrees and then to change the phase of the ice to liquid water, and compare it to the amount of energy transferred from the fall. Does this process seem to check out?
 
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No, because the air can heat up rather than the ice cube getting heated.
 
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Charles Link said:
No, because the air can heat up rather than the ice cube getting heated.
Thanks for the response!
Is there a way to tell whether or not the air would heat up rather than the ice cube heating up? If not, is there a way to solve this problem?
 
There is one additional complicating factor, in that, if there is evaporation that takes place from the liquid converting to gas, the result is 540 calories/gram. In general, the ice cube problem, in my estimation, does not have a simple solution. ## \\ ## Clearly, without even calculating it, the change in gravitational potential is enough to completely vaporize the ice cube, but whether it results in air getting heated and/or in kinetic energy of the ice cube is another matter. ## \\ ## Scratch this last statement: Let's compute it: ## U=mgh ## , ## h=30,000 ## ft ## \approx 9,000 ## meters, ## g=9.8 ## m/sec^2 , and ##m=1 ## gram ## =.001 ## kg . ## U=mgh=90 ## joules ## \approx 20 ## calories (1 calorie=4.184 joules). The answer is you can not even melt it with all of the available energy. You need ## 80 ## calories to completely melt it with 100% energy going into heating of the ice cube.
 
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Thanks for the help!
 
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The cube passes through the atmosphere in dropping the 30000 ft, and can exchange heat with the surrounding atmospheric air, since its temperature is going to differ from that of the air. Do you know what the air temperature and density are at 30000 ft, and as a function of altitude? Do you know how to determine the heat transfer coefficient between the air an the object, at the terminal velocity of the object? This is all covered in courses in heat transfer and atmospheric science.
 
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@Chestermiller Thank you. Yes, that is another part of the analysis that requires careful inspection. It can make a big difference if the atmosphere is at near freezing temperatures, or at temperatures in the ## T=20^o ## to ## 30^o ## C range.
 
Charles Link said:
@Chestermiller Thank you. Yes, that is another part of the analysis that requires careful inspection. It can make a big difference if the atmosphere is at near freezing temperatures, or at temperatures in the ## T=20^o ## to ## 30^o ## C range.
Actually, at 30000 ft (10 km, base of the stratosphere), the temperatures are on the order of -50 C.
 
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