Help with derivation of torque equation T = p x E

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    Derivation Torque
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the torque equation \(\vec{\tau} = \vec{p} \times \vec{E}\), exploring the relationships between torque, force, and momentum in physics. Participants engage in clarifying definitions and the reasoning behind the derivation steps.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation starting from the definitions of torque, force, and momentum, leading to the equation \(\vec{\tau} = \vec{E} \times \vec{p}\).
  • Another participant requests clarification on the variables and reasoning used in the derivation, indicating a need for more context.
  • Several participants emphasize the standard definition of torque as \(\vec{\tau} = \vec{r} \times \vec{F}\), suggesting that this is a universally accepted definition found in textbooks.
  • A participant discusses the relationship between torque and angular momentum, noting that torque is defined as the rate of change of angular momentum.
  • One participant expresses satisfaction with the responses received, indicating that their questions have been addressed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the definitions and derivations presented. While some participants assert the standard definition of torque, others explore alternative formulations and relationships without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the variables and their meanings are not fully clarified, and there is a reliance on standard definitions that may vary in interpretation among participants.

iScience
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\vec{\tau}=\vec{F}x\vec{r}

\vec{F}=\vec{E}q

\vec{p}=q\vec{d}

\vec{\tau}=(\vec{E}q)xr=\vec{E}x\vec{p}

so then how do we end up with \vec{\tau}=\vec{p}x\vec{E}?
 
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You need to tell us what you are trying to accomplish. What do your variables represent, what is your reasoning behind each step, etc.
 
iScience said:
\vec{\tau}=\vec{F}x\vec{r}

No, the definition is \vec \tau = \vec r \times \vec F. At least, that's the definition in every textbook I've ever used.
 
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The torque, \vec{\tau}, about a point, O, of a force, \vec{F}, acting at point P which is located at position \vec{r} from O is DEFINED AS
\vec{\tau} = \vec{r} \times \vec{F}.
As with all quantities in Physics, we would't define it as we do, unless what we've defined is useful. In this case, there is a simple relationship between the torque about O of a force acting on a particle, and the rate of change of the particle's angular momentum, \vec{J} about O.

Namely
\vec{\tau} = \frac{d\vec{J}}{dt}.
\vec{J} is defined exactly analogously to \vec{\tau}, but substituting the particle’s linear momentum, \vec{p}, for the force, \vec{F}, on the particle, so...
\vec{J} = \vec{r} \times \vec{p}.
 
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jtbell said:
No, the definition is \vec \tau = \vec r \times \vec F. At least, that's the definition in every textbook I've ever used.

thanks this answers everythingnow how do i close threads?
 
Last edited:
iScience said:
thanks this answers everything


now how do i close threads?

You don't.

Zz.
 

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