Help with my unknown in the second organic chemistry

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on identifying an unknown organic compound through boiling point and solubility tests. The boiling point was determined to be between 155°C and 165°C, suggesting potential candidates such as cyclohexanol and various alcohols. The solubility test indicated that the unknown is soluble in water, which is not uncommon for low molecular weight compounds. The participant expressed confusion regarding the boiling point determination method and the melting points of derivatives produced, particularly phenylurethane.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of organic chemistry principles, particularly boiling point determination.
  • Familiarity with solubility tests and their implications for compound identification.
  • Knowledge of derivative formation and melting point analysis in organic chemistry.
  • Experience with laboratory techniques such as vacuum filtration and thermometer usage.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research methods for accurately determining boiling points in organic compounds.
  • Study the implications of solubility in water for organic compound classification.
  • Learn about the synthesis and characterization of organic derivatives, focusing on melting point analysis.
  • Explore the use of spectroscopy for confirming organic compound identities post-derivative formation.
USEFUL FOR

Organic chemistry students, laboratory technicians, and anyone involved in compound identification and characterization in a chemistry lab setting.

laser123
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
1. Homework Statement
Okay, I just started working on my unknown in Lab and I got stuck with a liquid. First I determined the boiling point, my professor told me to let this step go for 30 minutes and it plateaued at around 147°C. I did this twice the first time I didn't do it as long and got a 140°C reading. Then I did the solubility test in water and found that 3mg of unknown to 1mL of H20(distilled) and it dissolved so it was soluble in water. Is this really uncommon for an unknown to dissolve in water or did i mess up somewhere? I then performed litmus test. Should I be worried.
2. Homework Equations
The textbook. Not applicable

3. The Attempt at a Solution
I did the solubility test twice. Also performed litmus test twice. The litmus test gave me a neutral reading.
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
It is not clear to me what kind of help do you expect. So far you are just collecting data, you don't know enough yet to tell anything.
 
Thanks. I was just worried and freaking out that I did something wrong.
 
I am not saying you didn't. 3 mg in 1 mL of solvent look rather strange to me, I would expect more like 30 mg per 1mL. But I have no idea what is the procedure you are expected to follow, so whatever I think doesn't matter much at this stage.
 
Oooops you're right.lol. That's what i meant. I read the scale at 0.036g. And then at 0.041g. It felt like I hardly put anything in there.
 
Hey Borek, thanks for helping. I turned my preliminary in and was right. So it is either a (low MW neutral alkene, alkyne, alchohol, ketone, amide, nitro compound, aldehyde, ester, ether). I have another question though, my professor told me to proof check my boiling point and put a no by it. This is how I determined it: I placed a thermometer about 1 cm above 0.5 mL of the liquid unknown in a test tube. I slowly heated the liquid to boiling. And allowed it to keep going for 30 minutes and obtained my max value and gave it a range of + or - 5 degrees Celsius. I'm confused because this what he told us to do. I thought the boiling point was as soon as it started to bubble, so is he wrong. Or am i just doing something wrong?
 
You have boiled the liquid for half an hour without condenser, and it didn't run away? Either I don't understand what you wrote or there is something missing from your description, or you are using approach that I have never heard of.
 
It's best to determine boiling point above the surface of the liquid just beneath the point where
condensation occurs.
 
Thanks guys, the boiling point was 155°C-165°C which has given me a choice of 6 possible compounds. List compound with respective boiling point in (°C): (+-)-4-Heptanol 156, 1-hexanol 159, cyclohexanol 160, (+-)-2-Heptanol 160, 3-chloro-1-propanol 161, (+-)-cis-2-methylcyclohexanol 165. These have 5 possible derivative we can make. I can only make three due to lack of chemicals in lab(we're poor). Phenylurethane, 4-nitrobenzoate, and 3,5-dinitrobenzoate. My phenylurethane derivative i feel was a disaster because it yield very little product and started to melt at 77, but didn't finish at all, even at 160°C. So I'm guessing that's really impure, which i still don't understand why the melting point is that high for it. The 77°C responds to my 82°C melting point of phenylurethane for cyclohexane. My next derivative 3,5-dinitrobenzoate melted at 103-105°C which i thought was good. This left only one choice because only one of my 6 choice had a melting point higher than that which is the cyclohexanol at 113°C. I tried making the 4-nitrobenzoate derivative today with no result(no filtrate) just went straight through vacuum filtration. I'm going to an extra lab tomorrow for another go at it. From my result do you think it's cyclohexanol or not enough information given. We don't get spectra until we figure out what our unknown is.

p.s Just to clarify, if my compound melting at 103°c the secret compound can only be higher than that melting point. Is that a good rule of thumb.

Thank you,
you guys are amazing
 
  • #10
And my solubility test said it was a low MW and neutral too...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
25K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
8K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
6K