Hi, I have two question about transformer and regulator:1- When

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two questions related to transformers and electronic regulators, specifically the concept of isolation in transformers and the operational limits of the 7812 voltage regulator. Participants explore the technical aspects and implications of these components in electrical engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that "isolation" in transformers refers to the physical separation between the primary and secondary coils, which are coupled through a magnetic field.
  • Another participant mentions that the 7812 regulator requires a minimum input voltage that is approximately 2V greater than the output voltage to function correctly, referring to this as the dropout voltage.
  • A detailed explanation is provided regarding the internal workings of the 7812 regulator, including the role of a bipolar output stage and specific transistors that influence dropout voltage.
  • One participant expresses that transformers can provide safety by isolating the user from high voltages, but another notes that not all transformers are isolated, specifically mentioning autotransformers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of transformer isolation and the operational characteristics of the 7812 regulator, but there is some disagreement regarding the specifics of isolation and the types of transformers. The discussion remains unresolved on the broader implications of transformer types.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific technical details such as dropout voltage and internal components of the 7812 regulator, but some assumptions about participants' knowledge and circuit analysis skills are present. The discussion does not resolve the nuances of transformer types and their isolation properties.

brad sue
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Hi,
I have two question about transformer and regulator:

1- When one refers to “isolation” with respect to a transformer, what does it mean?

It related to the fact that the transformer blocks DC component of the signal?

2-
this question is related to the electronic regulator 7812.
If the input line voltage decreases beyond a certain point the series regulator will stop regulating. Why?
I have attach the circuit related to it.

Thank you
 

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I can't view your doc file but for the first question; A transformer couples AC voltage from the primary coil to the secondary coil which are isolated from each other except for the magnetic field that provides this coupling.

Regards
 
2) Electronic regulators like the 7812 have a minimum Vin about 2v greater than Vout. If Vin is less than required it will not regulate properly.
For an exact value for Vin minimum look at the data sheet.
 
brad sue said:
2-
this question is related to the electronic regulator 7812.
If the input line voltage decreases beyond a certain point the series regulator will stop regulating. Why?
I have attach the circuit related to it.

Thank you

Thats a good question. When using these ICs, it is important to know or at least have an simple understanding of the internals. That threshold voltage that you're referring to is called dropout voltage. The dropout for the 7812 is about 2V. As you've discovered this is the voltage where the IC stops regulating. Quick examination of the 7812's schematic will reveal the reason. The 78xx series uses an bipolar output stage. In particular this output stage is a NPN darlington pair. It is such output stages that determine the dropout voltage for these kinds of ICs.

I'm not sure how far your circuit analysis skills go, but if you pull up the datasheet for the 7412, you'll notice that the darlington pair is transistors Q15, Q16, and the output of an "error amplifier" drives Q11-1. The PNP Q11-1 transistor controls the input bias current to the NPN darlington pair. Well from the darlington pair, we see that Vdropout will at least be 2*Vbe which is approximately 1.4V. I think the Q11-1 plays a role here with its Vce, but don't hold me to that. The point of this output structure (error amp, PNP, and darlington pair) is to provide a relatively stable output voltage for a varing input voltages and load current.

You can get voltage regulators known as LDO (low dropout) regulators that have dropout voltages in the millivolts. You can find schematics for such regulators and compare the output stage to the 7812. Its a great way to learn!
 
Last edited:
I think it means they are physically isolated. That's why you can use a transformer to check line voltages with less risk of dying, there is no connection from the lines to your body, only the stepped down voltage or current.
 
Just note about transformers. Not all transformers have isolation between primary and secondary.
These are the autotransformers
Most transformers that are delivering service to you home are autotransformers.
 

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