High-heeled shoes and evolution theory.

[Evo]

http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/what-were-they-thinking-2013-slideshow/
The high healed shoes in the first image are just plain absurd.
Need I say more.

Not only are the shoes ugly, they're not the right size and her feet are REALLY ugly.

 

[Drakkith]

You know, I read somewhere, perhaps on this very forum, that Women don't dress up for Men, they dress up for other Women.

 

[jim hardy]

...

http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/what-were-they-thinking-2013-slideshow/
The high healed shoes in the first image are just plain absurd.
...

Au contraire, they're quite practical.
She could kill a cockroach in a corner.

 

[Evo]

Au contraire, they're quite practical.
She could kill a cockroach in a corner.

And afterward, she can pick her teeth.

 

[drizzle]

Not being male, I don't understand the attraction. But hey, whatever decreases μ for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfMO2R7u44

... Is it made for a horror/zombie movie?

And afterward, she can pick her teeth.

 

[Astronuc]

He's a lumberjack, and he's OK; he wears "high heels, suspenders, and a bra"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL7n5mEmXJo

 

[WannabeNewton]

He's a lumberjack, and he's OK; he wears "high heels, suspenders, and a bra"

Oh god I remember when I first saw this Monty Python masterpiece I couldn't stop laughing until my stomach got knotted up and it started hurting. We need a Monty Python subforum!

 

[NemoReally]

Not being male, I don't understand the attraction. But hey, whatever decreases μ for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfMO2R7u44

Hence proving there is no idea that somebody, somewhere cannot extend beyond the bounds of rationality, practicality or stupidity.

LOL, you expect a peer reviewed scientific journal to have research on high heels?

Actually, I did. Apart from, as did you, noting that there is bound to have been the odd social "scientist" writing papers on such things, I wondered if somebody in the fashion industry had thought of seeing if science could provide an improved ROI. There's a lot of money involved and trimming a few euros off the budget by targeting design appeal parameters could be worth it.

Scientists don't do research on fashion, AFAIK. Peer reviewed sicentific journals are needed if you are referring to a scientific study, or something that should be.

Just to add to the other sources, I give you ...
Fashion Theory - "A fine addition to academic institutions with cultural studies programs; essential for those with special collections in fashion and costume.": http://www.bergpublishers.com/bergjournals/fashiontheory/tabid/524/default.aspx

http://www.bergpublishers.com/BergJournals/FashionPractice/tabid/3730/Default.aspx

Catwalk: The Journal of Fashion, Beauty, and Style, part of the Global Interdisciplinary Research Studies series, is an externally peer reviewed inter- and trans-disciplinary journal, published twice a year (with an optional 'special edition' some years). Catwalk publishes articles focused on the historical, social, cultural, psychological, political, business, media, technology, performance, representational, and artistic dimensions of fashion, beauty, and style. Our starting point is that fashion, beauty, and style lie at the very heart of persons, their sense of identity and individual expressiveness, and that all three influence the communities and world in which they live. Core themes explored by the journal include: the dressed and undressed body; adulated, marginal, and deviant bodies; beauty standards; fashion and style trends; and performance and self-fashioning through dress and body modification. Other topics Catwalk examines include the fashion-beauty-style industrial consumer complex; the social construction of glamour and icons; and the influence of race, ethnicity, nation, class, age, sexuality on discourses about, representations of, and the identity construction of fashion-beauty-style. We are interested in the roles of fashion, beauty, and style in the formation of identities, subcultures, communities, cities, and nations; and their influence in art, pop culture, celebrity culture, film, multi-media internet games, and the blogosphere. :http://www.interdisciplinarypress.net/index2.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=71&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

Au contraire, they're quite practical.
She could kill a cockroach in a corner.

I believe such a style has been popular throughout the ages for winkle-picking as well

You know, I read somewhere, perhaps on this very forum, that Women don't dress up for Men, they dress up for other Women.

I did a quick straw poll amongst the wives in my household. 100 % of them answered that women dress up for both.

I also did a quick survey amongst the wives and 12-year old daughters in my household. Both of them agreed that "subservient" is not a word that they would associate with the wearing of high heels. In fact, my daughter positively grinned with delight as she put on a pair of quite low heels and looked me in the eye (yes, she's quite tall for her age and she likes her ballet points for the same reason).

 

[HeLiXe]

And afterward, she can pick her teeth.

 

[hxtasy]

King Louis had invented high heels for himeself because he was so short.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France

he also looked Fabbbbbuuloooussss

and evolutionary wise, women do the peacocking not the males, which is different than majority of animals.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

and evolutionary wise, women do the peacocking not the males, which is different than majority of animals.

Sexual dimorphism in the animal world is not comparable to human cultural rituals and fashion. For obvious reasons all human behaviours are far more complicated and we should be careful when drawing straight comparisons to animals.

 

[I like Serena]

Sexual dimorphism in the animal world is not comparable to human cultural rituals and fashion. For obvious reasons all human behaviours are far more complicated and we should be careful when drawing straight comparisons to animals.

I tend to disagree. I do believe that humans are generally more distant from there instincts.
But those instincts are there! And they have far more influence than you may acknowledge.
In the end we aren't above those animals that you disparage so easily.
And those complications that you mention are more of illusions that hide what is really going on.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I tend to disagree. I do believe that humans are generally more distant from there instincts.
But those instincts are there! And they have far more influence than you may acknowledge.
In the end we aren't above those animals that you disparage so easily.
And those complications that you mention are more of illusions that hide what is really going on.

You've missed my point and seem to have made one up that I didn't say. I was specifically referring to direct comparisons like the peacock one above to human fashion and behaviour. The wearing of any clothing item is not comparable to biological features whose purpose is mate attraction.

 

[I like Serena]

You've missed my point and seem to have made one up that I didn't say. I was specifically referring to direct comparisons like the peacock one above to human fashion and behaviour. The wearing of any clothing item is not comparable to biological features whose purpose is mate attraction.

My point is that I believe we can draw straight comparisons and I believe it applies just as much to human fashion and behavior.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Does a peacock pluck its own feathers and replace them with fake ones in order to attract a female?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

My point is that I believe we can draw straight comparisons and I believe it applies just as much to human fashion and behavior.

Make your case. How does fashion, a social construct with a variety of purposes, directly compare to sexually selected sexual dimorphism?

 

[dlgoff]

Does a peacock pluck its own feathers and replace them with fake ones in order to attract a female?

Someone does.

 

[jim hardy]

Go into a jumpin' bar around eleven PM. It's like watching a nature show.

You'll see dominant males looking to fight.
You'll see hyenas swiping people's drinks.
You'll see predators looking for easy prey.
You'll see fearful critters hiding behind mirrored shades..
You'll see busy bees buzzing around looking for a flower to pollenate.
You'll see flowers looking to get pollenated.

It's in 'Closing Time', by Leonard Cohen...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Someone does.

That's what I meant. People do that. We hide our natural appearance and replace it with an unnatural one in order to attract the opposite sex. Are there other examples of that in other species.

 

[dlgoff]

That's what I meant. People do that. We hide our natural appearance and replace it with an unnatural one in order to attract the opposite sex.

Exactly.

 

[g.lemaitre]

I thought you weren't allowed to discuss evolution theory on this forum

 

[dlgoff]

Go into a jumpin' bar around eleven PM. It's like watching a nature show.

You'll see dominant males looking to fight.
You'll see hyenas swiping people's drinks.
You'll see predators looking for easy prey.
You'll see fearful critters hiding behind mirrored shades..
You'll see busy bees buzzing around looking for a flower to pollenate.
You'll see flowers looking to get pollenated.

It's in 'Closing Time', by Leonard Cohen...

Jim. High heels don't matter there.

http://www.planetperplex.com/img/6beers.gif http://www.planetperplex.com/img/6beers_expl.gif

 

[Containment]

It's a justifiable reason to have an extra 200 pair of shoes.

 

[lisab]

I thought you weren't allowed to discuss evolution theory on this forum

Evolution is open - creationism is not.

But we're talking shoes. For some reason.

 

[lisab]

Jim. High heels don't matter there.

http://www.planetperplex.com/img/6beers.gif http://www.planetperplex.com/img/6beers_expl.gif

Hmm, linkies don't work for me.

 

[dlgoff]

Hmm, linkies don't work for me.

Probably just as well. I figured a mentor must have removed them.

 

[g.lemaitre]

Evolution is open - creationism is not.

.

What do you mean by open? Is true the same thing as open?

 

[lisab]

What do you mean by open? Is true the same thing as open?

Open means it's open for discussion. Of course the Biology forum is the place for those discussions. And I strongly suggest you read this first :

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=543950

 

[zoobyshoe]

Not being male, I don't understand the attraction. But hey, whatever decreases μ for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfMO2R7u44

Being male, I don't understand the attraction.

That video is hideous.

Hence proving there is no idea that somebody, somewhere cannot extend beyond the bounds of rationality, practicality or stupidity.

I have to check because it's not clear to me: you guys all realize those shoes in the video aren't intended to be attractive, right, that they're meant to be hideous?

 

[NemoReally]

Hence proving there is no idea that somebody, somewhere cannot extend beyond the bounds of rationality, practicality or stupidity.

I have to check because it's not clear to me: you guys all realize those shoes in the video aren't intended to be attractive, right, that they're meant to be hideous?

Umm .. just a few observations

1. My quote doesn't really care whether the idea is teasingly or unknowingly extended beyond said bounds. However, Murphy's Law guarantees somebody, somewhere will actually think it's a good idea.
2. They're not really high heels so much as ballet points with a shin-connected balancing mechanism.
3. They look a little too well designed otherwise to be deliberately hideous, although that could part of the intent ...
4. Comments about the shoe from this link: http://www.designboom.com/design/leanie-van-der-vyver-scary-beautiful/

leanie van der vyver: scary beautiful
Oct 06, 2012

cape town-based designer leanie van der vyver has conceived and collaborated with dutch designer and shoe fabricator rené van den berg to execute 'scary beautiful', a pair of shoes for women which reverses the expected location of the heels and insole. the user must point their foot to insert into the shoe's modified vamp which is inclined forward and tapers down to the toebox. the foot rests upon a platformed toebox and is stabilized within the glove-like shoe with a brace which wraps the ankle and is secured with buckles. Spreading up the front of the shin, an angled heel projects from a tract of suede to support the individual. these 'high-toed' pumps instead position the leather sole to cover the arch of the foot.

'humans are playing God by physically and metaphorically perfecting themselves. beauty is currently at an all time climax, allowing this project to explore what lies beyond perfection. scary beautiful challenges current beauty ideals by inflicting an unexpected new beauty standard.' -leanie van der vyver

The problem I often have is distinguishing in such cases between somebody's tongue being firmly in their cheek and it being "real" - I refer back to my original point!

5. I bet 'elf and safety would have burst even major artery in their collective bodies for the filming but wouldn't bat an eyelid if your local shoe shop started stocking them. Lawyers, OTOH, would be licking their collective lips like cats given the keys to the creamery waiting for the first stumble.