How are photons able to carry messages?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around how photons can be utilized to transmit information, particularly in the context of radio and television signals. Participants explore the relationship between photons, classical mechanics, and communication theory, addressing both the fundamental principles and practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how simple particles like photons can be used to convey complex information such as music or video.
  • One participant suggests that classical mechanics, particularly Maxwell's equations, is sufficient to explain the phenomena without invoking quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while photons do not carry messages directly, they can be part of a system where oscillating voltages are converted into electromagnetic waves, which are then received and demodulated.
  • It is proposed that all information can be represented as a stream of digital bits, and photons are a practical medium for transmitting this information due to their speed and efficiency.
  • Some participants note that the original poster's misunderstanding may stem from a broader confusion about how complex information is encoded and transmitted using photons.
  • One participant points out that while a single photon carries limited information, a stream of photons can effectively convey more complex signals, such as Morse Code.
  • Another participant mentions that variations in light intensity can be used to encode sound, illustrating a practical example of how photons can transmit information.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of quantum mechanics in explaining the transmission of information via photons. While some advocate for a classical approach, others argue for the relevance of quantum concepts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best framework for understanding this phenomenon.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of communications theory and the need for a step-by-step approach to understanding how information is transmitted. There are indications of missing assumptions and varying interpretations of how photons relate to information transfer.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring the fundamentals of communication theory, the role of photons in information transmission, and the interplay between classical and quantum mechanics in practical applications.

Timvanhoomissen
I'm having trouble understanding how simple particles can be received and then with that information translated into a song on the radio or a program on television. Any help?
 
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Why would you try to use quantum mechanics to analyze something that is perfectly well described with classical mechanics? I would recommend just focusing on Maxwell's equations instead of QM.
 
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Timvanhoomissen said:
I'm having trouble understanding how simple particles can be received and then with that information translated into a song on the radio or a program on television. Any help?

Dale said:
Why would you try to use quantum mechanics to analyze something that is perfectly well described with classical mechanics?
Exactly ... as photons DONT carry messages

Oscillating voltages in the transmitter are sent to the antenna the antenna then radiates an electromagnetic wave that is picked up by the receiving antenna(s) it is converted back to a voltage that is then demodulated that then produces audio and video ( as in a TV) or just audio for an AM or FM radio station. Or info displayed on your mobile phone or other deviceDave
 
Timvanhoomissen said:
I'm having trouble understanding how simple particles can be received and then with that information translated into a song on the radio or a program on television. Any help?
All information can be reduced to a stream of digital bits -1s and 0s -. And any physical thing that can be streamed between two points can be modulated to make a bit stream, provided there are enough of them. You could transmit pictures using a stream of ping pong balls. But it is simpler and much faster to use photons.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
All information can be reduced to a stream of digital bits -1s and 0s -. And any physical thing that can be streamed between two points can be modulated to make a bit stream, provided there are enough of them. You could transmit pictures using a stream of ping pong balls. But it is simpler and much faster to use photons.

AM

I think you missed the point of his mis-understanding ... reread Dale and my posts :smile:
 
Timvanhoomissen said:
I'm having trouble understanding how simple particles can be received and then with that information translated into a song on the radio or a program on television. Any help?
It seems to me that you want too much, too quickly. Your post includes virtually the whole of communications theory and practice.
You need to go one step at a time. Dave's post gives you a partial list of some of the basic steps in a chain which allow music (or any other varying quantity) can be transmitted from a source to a receiver. Look at each of his steps in turn and formulate a question about it that can be answered.
You must expect for this to take a long time with many repeats. There will be many mistakes and misunderstands on the way. :smile:
 
Timvanhoomissen said:
I'm having trouble understanding how simple particles can be received and then with that information translated into a song on the radio or a program on television. Any help?
Photons can have different energies corresponding to different frequencies. You can vary the energy/frequency to encode the signal.
 
davenn said:
I think you missed the point of his mis-understanding ... reread Dale and my posts :smile:
Maybe, but it seems to me that the original poster's difficulty is not with photons per se but with how complex information can be effectively carried by them. An individual photon cannot carry much information but a stream of them certainly can.

AM
 
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Andrew Mason said:
the original poster's difficulty is not with photons per se
It's another demonstration of how people feel pressured to use 'photons' in any explanation of anything. It's as if it makes things more approachable but it's actually quite the opposite.
The only information that a single photon can carry is the fact that it existed and roughly the time it existed. A series of bursts of photons (a flashing light!) can be used to send Morse Code messages. That is easy to appreciate - much easier than the idea of 'digital' TV or sound - but it's a first stab. The brightness of light can be varied by the (analogue) light and dark stripes on the optical audio track on old film and those brightness variations can be used to move a loudspeaker coil to reproduce sound.
There's no end to it!
 

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