How can engineers get away with splitting differentials in dynamics?

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the mathematical practice of splitting differentials in dynamics, specifically the equations v = ds/dt and a = dv/dt, leading to the relation vdv = ads. While this method is effective for certain one-dimensional problems, it raises concerns about mathematical rigor and the potential oversight of critical concepts like the Jacobian. The conversation highlights the casual approach physicists often take with differentials, emphasizing the need for caution to avoid errors in more complex scenarios.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic calculus concepts, particularly derivatives and differentials.
  • Familiarity with vector and scalar equations in physics.
  • Knowledge of the Jacobian and its significance in transformations.
  • Awareness of Weierstraß's formula for limits and its application in calculus.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of splitting differentials in multi-dimensional calculus.
  • Explore the role of the Jacobian in coordinate transformations and its applications in physics.
  • Learn about Weierstraß's formula and its advantages in handling limits in calculus.
  • Investigate the differences between vector and scalar equations in dynamics.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physics students, engineers, and mathematicians who are interested in the mathematical foundations of dynamics and the implications of using differentials in problem-solving.

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TL;DR
splitting the differential
In an introductory dynamics textbook, we often see this progression

v = ds/dt ---> dt = ds/v

a = dv/dt ---> dt = dv/a

Equating the dt, we get: vdv=ads

Now my question

On the one hand, this works for certain problems.
On the other hand, this is splitting the differential.

Could someone please explain

Why it works under certain conditions? How engineers get away with this?

If it is poor math to do this: why? Is it because one should never split the differential?

How can engineers get away with this?

I see that it does work, but only in ONE dimension.

This whole issue has always bothered me but I cannot state, with clarity, conviction, precision:
Why it is poor math to do this
Why we can get away with it.
 
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Physicists are usually pretty casual in dealing with differentials :smile: .
In the 'progression' you quote, the expressions at the left are vector equations; the ones on the right are scalar expressions.
Beginning physicists should be careful not to accidentally hop back and forth, or they risk overlooking a Jacobian and other useful mathematical goodies.

##\ ##
 
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Trying2Learn said:
TL;DR Summary: splitting the differential

In an introductory dynamics textbook, we often see this progression

v = ds/dt ---> dt = ds/v

a = dv/dt ---> dt = dv/a

Equating the dt, we get: vdv=ads

Now my question

On the one hand, this works for certain problems.
On the other hand, this is splitting the differential.

Could someone please explain

Why it works under certain conditions? How engineers get away with this?

If it is poor math to do this: why? Is it because one should never split the differential?

How can engineers get away with this?

I see that it does work, but only in ONE dimension.

This whole issue has always bothered me but I cannot state, with clarity, conviction, precision:
Why it is poor math to do this
Why we can get away with it.
A formal proof of why this jugglery with "d"'s actually works is a nightmare because they are not even defined as solids at this level.
$$
\dfrac{ds}{dt}=\lim_{h \to 0}\dfrac{s(t+h)-s(t)}{h}
$$
Now, how would you isolate ##dt## here? I like to avoid such steps by using Weierstraß's formula: $$ s(t+h)= s(t)+ s'(t) \cdot h + o(h)$$ with a remainder ##o(h)## that is quadratic in ##h## so it vanishes fast as ##h## goes to zero. With that formula, Weierstraß has out all the limit stuff in the ##o(h)## term and we can work with them as there was no limit stuff.

You should be careful with
BvU said:
Physicists are usually pretty casual in dealing with differentials :smile: .
because: they have practiced juggling! It can go wrong!
 
fresh_42 said:
It can go wrong!
Tell me something I don't know :smile:

Been there, done that.

##\ ##
 
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