How can I express f(z) in terms of z?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around expressing a function f(z) in terms of the complex variable z, specifically focusing on the relationship between z and its components x and y. The participants are examining the manipulation of complex exponential forms and trigonometric identities.

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  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conversion of expressions involving sine and cosine into exponential forms, question substitutions made in the process, and discuss the simplification of complex expressions. There are inquiries about how to rearrange terms and the relationship between different factors in the equations.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing hints and corrections to each other's work. Some guidance has been offered regarding the forms of sine and hyperbolic sine, and there is a recognition of the need to correct earlier mistakes. Multiple interpretations of the expressions are being explored, and participants are actively seeking clarification on specific steps.

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Participants are working under constraints typical of homework assignments, including the need to show work and the challenge of expressing complex functions accurately. There is also a mention of formatting equations, indicating a shared interest in presentation as part of the discussion.

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Hello! I am stuck at the final step. How do I get x+iy from the equation? Help!

I am so sorry for posting this question in a picture instead of writing it out, because I don't know how to write equations on here.
 

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I see a small mistake: on the 4th line, shouldn't you be taking out the common factor 1/4?

Check your exponential equivalents for sine, cosine, etc., on line 3. There's your mistake.
 
Last edited:
NascentOxygen said:
I can't see it. But I see a small mistake: on the 4th line, shouldn't you be taking out the common factor 1/4?

why 1/4 ?
 
You substituted incorrectly.

[tex]\cos{z}=\frac{e^{iz}+e^{-iz}}{2}[/tex]

[tex]\sin{z}=\frac{e^{iz}-e^{-iz}}{2i}[/tex]

And you should factor out a value on the 4th line because you want your expression to be of the form

[tex]k\left(\frac{e^{iz}-e^{-iz}}{2i}\right)[/tex]
(or some similar form in the brackets)
where k is some complex number, and z is a complex number. Your expression would then simplify to [itex]k\sin{z}[/itex]
 
Mentallic said:
You substituted incorrectly.

[tex]\cos{z}=\frac{e^{iz}+e^{-iz}}{2}[/tex]

[tex]\sin{z}=\frac{e^{iz}-e^{-iz}}{2i}[/tex]

And you should factor out a value on the 4th line because you want your expression to be of the form

[tex]k\left(\frac{e^{iz}-e^{-iz}}{2i}\right)[/tex]
(or some similar form in the brackets)
where k is some complex number, and z is a complex number. Your expression would then simplify to [itex]k\sin{z}[/itex]

But z=x+iy. How do I change i(x^2-y^2) into z? I can't figure out how to rearrange it.
 
Well of course you should recognize that

[tex]z^2=(x+iy)^2=x^2-y^2+i 2xy[/tex]

and what you have is VERY similar to this form. Since you made a mistake early on that I pointed out, your final result isn't going to work with the method I'm hinting at here, but when you fix that up then it'll fall into place.

[tex]i(x^2-y^2)-2xy[/tex]

Should be quite easily converted into a function of z by observing the z2 result.
 
Mentallic said:
Well of course you should recognize that

[tex]z^2=(x+iy)^2=x^2-y^2+i 2xy[/tex]

and what you have is VERY similar to this form. Since you made a mistake early on that I pointed out, your final result isn't going to work with the method I'm hinting at here, but when you fix that up then it'll fall into place.

[tex]i(x^2-y^2)-2xy[/tex]

Should be quite easily converted into a function of z by observing the z2 result.

Ok, so I have corrected my mistakes but I got stuck here. How do I continue?
 

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Now expand like you did earlier and simplify where possible.
 
Mentallic said:
Now expand like you did earlier and simplify where possible.

I did that but still couldn't get the answer. Hold on, I will show you my work later.
 
  • #10
Did you end up with

[tex]-i\left(\frac{e^{w}-e^{-w}}{2}\right)[/tex]

where

[tex]w=i(x^2-y^2)-2xy[/tex]

??
 
  • #11
Mentallic said:
Now expand like you did earlier and simplify where possible.

I don't know what to do next. How do I simplify this further?
 
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  • #12
Mentallic said:
Did you end up with

[tex]-i\left(\frac{e^{w}-e^{-w}}{2}\right)[/tex]

where

[tex]w=i(x^2-y^2)-2xy[/tex]

??

Sorry, did a mistake earlier. Here's what I got.
 

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  • #13
Sorry, I only just glossed over your previous upload and didn't spot the error.

[tex]\sinh{z}=\frac{e^z-e^{-z}}{2}[/tex]

while you had an i in the denominator.
 
  • #14
Mentallic said:
Sorry, I only just glossed over your previous upload and didn't spot the error.

[tex]\sinh{z}=\frac{e^z-e^{-z}}{2}[/tex]

while you had an i in the denominator.

Oh yes, that was my mistake. But then what happens to the i outside of the bracket?
 
  • #15
The first 4 terms have a constant factor of

[tex]\frac{1}{4i}[/tex]

while the right 4 are

[tex]\frac{i}{4}[/tex]

How do these two numbers relate to each other?
 
  • #16
Mentallic said:
The first 4 terms have a constant factor of

[tex]\frac{1}{4i}[/tex]

while the right 4 are

[tex]\frac{i}{4}[/tex]

How do these two numbers relate to each other?

They're minus to each other. Sorry, I don't know how to say that mathematically.
 
  • #17
MissP.25_5 said:
They're minus to each other. Sorry, I don't know how to say that mathematically.

Right!

[tex]\frac{1}{4i}=\frac{i}{4(-1)}=\frac{-i}{4}[/tex]

and so now you can continue to simplify the expression!
 
  • #18
Mentallic said:
Right!

[tex]\frac{1}{4i}=\frac{i}{4(-1)}=\frac{-i}{4}[/tex]

and so now you can continue to simplify the expression!

Simplified it, then what? I am still stuck here.
 

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  • #19
Check post #10.
 
  • #20
Mentallic said:
Check post #10.

Uhmm, how do I change w into z? Can I just simpy do this?

exp(i*(ia-b)) ?? Is it possible to multiply i just like that?
 
  • #21
MissP.25_5 said:
Uhmm, how do I change w into z? Can I just simpy do this?

exp(i*(ia-b)) ?? Is it possible to multiply i just like that?

I'm using w just as a place-holder. Just like a and b are place-holders.

Let w=a-b.
 
  • #22
Mentallic said:
I'm using w just as a place-holder. Just like a and b are place-holders.

Let w=a-b.

Ok, but how do we get sin(a+ib) from it? I can't seem to rearrange it.
 
  • #23
Notice that -ia+b = -(ia-b)

so if we let w=-ia+b (or we could have also done w=ia-b) then

[tex]\frac{i}{2}(e^{-ia+b}-e^{ia-b})[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{i}{2}(e^{-ia+b}-e^{-(-ia+b)})[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{i}{2}(e^{w}-e^{-w})[/tex]
[tex]=i\left(\frac{e^{w}-e^{-w}}{2}\right)[/tex]
[tex]=i\cdot\sinh(w)[/tex]

Let's substitute back now since we don't want w.

[tex]w=-ia+b[/tex]
[tex]=-i(x^2-y^2)+2xy[/tex]
[tex]=-i\left((x^2-y^2)+i2xy\right)[/tex]

And what is [itex]x^2-y^2+i2xy[/itex] equal to in terms of z?
 
  • #24
Mentallic said:
Notice that -ia+b = -(ia-b)

so if we let w=-ia+b (or we could have also done w=ia-b) then

[tex]\frac{i}{2}(e^{-ia+b}-e^{ia-b})[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{i}{2}(e^{-ia+b}-e^{-(-ia+b)})[/tex]
[tex]=\frac{i}{2}(e^{w}-e^{-w})[/tex]
[tex]=i\left(\frac{e^{w}-e^{-w}}{2}\right)[/tex]
[tex]=i\cdot\sinh(w)[/tex]

Let's substitute back now since we don't want w.

[tex]w=-ia+b[/tex]
[tex]=-i(x^2-y^2)+2xy[/tex]
[tex]=-i\left((x^2-y^2)+i2xy\right)[/tex]

And what is [itex]x^2-y^2+i2xy[/itex] equal to in terms of z?

z2! The answer is sin(z2), right? Thank you for your explanations! By the way, could you tell me how you write the equations like that? What format do you use?
 
  • #25
[tex]w=-iz^2[/tex]

and so

[tex]f(z)=i\cdot\sinh{(-iz^2)}[/tex]

but

[tex]\sin(a)=\frac{\sinh(ia)}{i}[/tex]

and so

[tex]f(z)=-\frac{\sinh(i(-z^2))}{i}[/tex]

[tex]=-\sin(-z^2)=\sin(z^2)[/tex]

so yes, you were correct. You could have instead chosen w such that we end up with sin() rather than sinh() and avoided all of this simplification though.

I use tex tags, check out
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3977517&postcount=3
 

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