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How did ET get in your head? [Continued from the Skepticism thread]

  1. Oct 19, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think you may be the first person to accuse the UFO crowd of lacking creativity.

    http://www.abduct.com/question/q186.htm



    http://www.syndicate23.com/index.cfm/resource_id/107.htm



    http://library.thinkquest.org/C004978F/ufo_aliens.htm?tqskip1=1&tqtime=1019


    This is me:
    Now don't you feel silly?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 19, 2003 #2
    When I was very, very young, it was well known that aliens had antennas on their heads. This was probably because at that time the most popular alien was Ray Walson in My Favorite Martian.
    When Star Trek premiered on TV, the first episode showed aliens to be bald, to have huge heads, and to communicate telepathically. In a later episode a similar looking alien had the large, almond shaped eyes. (This was the episode where this alien turned out to be a marionette operated by a midget with unpleasant teeth). I think the popularity of todays grey space alien can be traced back to these two episodes of Star Trek.
     
  4. Oct 20, 2003 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    This can be traced at least back to Betty and Barney Hill - 1961.
    http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/hilldir.htm

    I will have to look but it seems that similar accounts can be found from the middle ages.
     
  5. Oct 20, 2003 #4
    The Interrupted Journey predates the Star Trek episodes by a couple/three years but, being a book, and requiring literacy, did not serve to popularize, the grey space alien we have come to know and love.
     
  6. Oct 20, 2003 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    This is one difficult part of tracking myths - routing out the causes from the effects. For example, Close Encounters of the Third Kind hired Hynek as a consultant. Many will point to current claims similar to scenes in the movie and cry foul. Obviously we might expect similarities between real reports and Hollywood if the latter seeks to imitate the claims of the former. Personally, I tend to think that Whitley Schrieber made the grays famous with his book Communion. It seemed to me that the whole subject exploded about this time. Note also that some indications exist that this image may be produced naturally by the brain in certain situations; such as when experiencing severe hypoxia [anoxia], and when subjected to strong EM [I think] near EEG frequencies..
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  7. Oct 20, 2003 #6

    hypnagogue

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    By 'this image,' I assume you mean the image of a typical 'grey'? If so, that's very interesting... Any good links going more in depth into this phenomenon?
     
  8. Oct 20, 2003 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    There should be some links in the Skeptic's Napster...there are some skeptical links in the UFO napster that may lead to this also. I have seen quite a few reports about experiments like this where the OBE is also supposedly reproduced. Many of the feelings reported as part of ET abduction experiences are claimed as well. I don't have any immediate links handy, but if you can't find anything in the napsters or otherwise let me know and I will try to find these when I have a little more time.


    Edit: I should add that the images reported passing as greys is a highly subjective interpretation at best.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  9. Oct 20, 2003 #8
    If you have your dates straight, there's no particular difficulty.
    These people don't have their dates straight.
    True. The thing to note is when Hollywood changes and adds for effect, and the subsequent claims start to include this new, invented material, that was never included in "real life" reports before.
    Don't know exactly how old you are but UFOs exploded in the 1960s, with a bang much bigger than any since. The first episode of Star Trek aired right in the middle of this, and the image of aliens as big headed, bald, telepathic soon became the norm. Before this they were reported often to look just like earthmen, but more healthy and handsome (Day The Earth Stood Still, and the George Adamski books, I suspect).
    This goes back to what I was saying some time ago about seizures. I've done some reading on the work of Michael Persinger.
    The EM fields are not strong at all actually, the frequency does make a difference. (Incidently, an EEG doesn't have a frequency. It detects frequencies, but more inportantly, amplitudes, and waveforms. Spike and wave at 3 Hz, for example, is the classic absence seizure form and frequency.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  10. Oct 20, 2003 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    I knew that we had major flaps from '47 on, but I didn't realize the grey guys we so common then.

    Well, I meant fequencies of 0.5 to 26 Hz as measure by EEGs.
    http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Clinical_Neurosciences/louis/eegcrs.html

    Edit: the field is strong in relative terms because the source is right next to the brain.

    Also, did you know that Persinger thinks UFOs may be intelligent balls of light? Edit: I just spotted a paper on this. I will have to dig this up...I'm supposed to be working.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  11. Oct 20, 2003 #10
    Persinger nutshell:

    "It is possible, too, that abductees may be describing similar hallucinations due to similar brain states, as Michael Persinger argues. Likewise, the ecstatic and contemplative accounts of mystics may be similar due to similar brain states associated with bodily detachment and a sense of transcendence. Using electrodes to stimulate specific parts of the brain, Persinger has duplicated the feelings of the sensed presence and other experiences_ associated with near-death-experiences (NDEs), OBEs, mystical experience and the alien abduction experience. The language and symbols of birth, sex and death may be nothing but analogues for brain states. Shared recollections of experiences do not prove that the experiences were not delusions. The experience which abductees think of as an alien abduction experience may be due to certain brain states. These states may be associated with sleep paralysis or other forms of sleep disturbances, including mild brain seizures. Sleep paralysis occurs in the hypnagogic state or the hypnopompic state. The description abductees give of their experience--being unable to move or speak, feeling some sort of presence, feeling fear and an inability to cry out--is a list of the symptoms of_ sleep paralysis. Sleep paralysis is thought by some to account for not only many alien abduction delusions, but also other delusions involving paranormal or supernatural experiences. There are, of course, certain psychiatric disorders which are characterized by delusions. Many people with these disorders are treated with drugs which affect the production or functioning of neurotransmitters. The treatments are very successful in eliminating the delusions. Persinger has treated at least one person with anti-seizure medication which effectively stopped her from having recurring experiences of the type described by alien abductees and those with sleep paralysis. Countless schizophrenics and manic-depressives, when properly medicated, cease having delusions about God, Satan, the FBI, the CIA, and aliens."

    The Skeptic's Dictionary
    SkepDic.com
     
  12. Oct 20, 2003 #11
    I picked up a book of abduction stories in 1987, pre-whitley, and 9 out of the ten stories included greys.
    When I say Star Trek popularized the bald, big headed telepathic alien I mean this is what people in general began to concieve of an alien looking like. The extent to which people started going to therapists and being hypnotically regressed to reveal what happened during their "missing time" can only be guessed from following the literature back. I don't know of any alien-type abduction reports pre-the Hills. It was Hags, and demons, and ghosts. Encounters with the occupants of flying discs were of the Michael Rennie type - handsome, healthy alien comes to warn and enlighten. (Although there might be some stories of ugly, hostile, unhuman ones, but these are not abduction situations, if I remember correctly - I'm trying to sort out stuff I read as a kid: 10 or 11).
    Wasn't sure from the way you phrased it.

    Yes, he puts solenoids right up to the head, but if I remember correctly, the strength is still quite weak. The aim and frequency seem to be the important aspects.
    I have no idea what you're refering to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  13. Oct 20, 2003 #12

    Ivan Seeking

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  14. Oct 20, 2003 #13
    This whole thread is one big LOL!
     
  15. Oct 21, 2003 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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  16. Oct 21, 2003 #15
    I'm looking for intelligent balls of light.
     
  17. Oct 21, 2003 #16

    Ivan Seeking

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    I know. I saw an except that referred to this along with the additional comment that these orbs seem to react to people's thought's. To say the least I was very surprised to see this. At the time I was getting some other info and I thought that I knew where I was. When I went back yesterday I couldn't find it. This was listed under Persinger but it may have related to the "ELFs or ET" thread. I will make a couple of more atttempts to find this over the next few days.

    If I don't post this in the next few days then consider this a retraction.
     
  18. Oct 21, 2003 #17
    I'm not sure why you say this. What do you think this thread is saying?
     
  19. Oct 22, 2003 #18
    I'm not happy with that "This Is Your Brain On God" article. A very attitudinally biased piece of writing. I first read about Persinger in the Dec. '88 issue of Omni Magazine, and still feel that is the best "popular" (as opposed to technical) writing about Persinger I've read. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it online.
     
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