How did Gibbs come up with the idea that particles are indistinguishable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the historical context and reasoning behind Gibbs' proposal that particles are indistinguishable, particularly in relation to resolving Gibbs paradox. It explores the implications of this idea within classical physics and its connection to the development of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Gibbs introduced the concept of indistinguishable particles to resolve Gibbs paradox, questioning whether this approach was ad hoc given the absence of quantum mechanics at the time.
  • Others argue that the discretization of energy by Planck was also an ad hoc measure to address the ultraviolet catastrophe, suggesting a pattern of mathematical manipulation in early physics that led to quantum mechanics.
  • One participant humorously suggests that creativity played a role in Gibbs' reasoning, though this does not provide a substantive argument.
  • Another point raised is that Gibbs' work may not have received sufficient attention initially due to its publication in an obscure journal, with clarity on his insights emerging only after others reproduced his results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of Gibbs' approach and its implications, with some questioning the validity of treating particles as indistinguishable and others highlighting the historical context of scientific discovery. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the appropriateness of ad hoc methods in the development of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about classical versus quantum interpretations and the historical significance of Gibbs' contributions, which are not fully explored.

kof9595995
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To resolve Gibbs paradox, Gibbs himself came up the idea to treat particles as indistinguishable. Since by then QM hadn't been discovered, how did Gibbs argue that particles indistinguishable? In any classical sense, particles should be distinguishable, if Gibbs did it only to resolve the paradox, wouldn't it be ad hoc?
 
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kof9595995 said:
To resolve Gibbs paradox, Gibbs himself came up the idea to treat particles as indistinguishable. Since by then QM hadn't been discovered, how did Gibbs argue that particles indistinguishable? In any classical sense, particles should be distinguishable, if Gibbs did it only to resolve the paradox, wouldn't it be ad hoc?

The discretization of energy was an ad hoc act of desperation and mathematical manipulation on Planck's part to resolve the "ultarviolet catastrophe". It led to QM.

So what's wrong with the ad hoc approach?
 
kof9595995 said:
How did Gibbs come up with the idea that particles are indistinguishable?

Creativity :smile:
 
Pythagorean said:
The discretization of energy was an ad hoc act of desperation and mathematical manipulation on Planck's part to resolve the "ultarviolet catastrophe". It led to QM.

So what's wrong with the ad hoc approach?

That makes sense, but it seems that this idea didn't cause enough attention and debates than it deserved.
 
I think the main reason for the lack of attention was that Gibbs published in an obscure journal in Connecticut, and most of his insights became clearer after other people had independently reproduced his results.
 

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