How did they get these 3 boundaries?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying three boundaries in a mathematical problem related to curves and their intersections in the u-v plane. Participants are analyzing the relationships between variables and exploring the implications of these boundaries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to define the boundaries based on given equations and conditions, questioning the relationships between variables u and v. Some suggest expressing x and y in terms of u and v to simplify the analysis. Others raise concerns about the implications of non-negativity for u and v and the resulting restrictions on x.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various approaches being explored. Some participants have provided alternative methods for expressing the variables, while others are questioning the assumptions made regarding the values of u and v. There is no explicit consensus, but multiple interpretations and lines of reasoning are being examined.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the non-negativity of u and v, and the constraints on x based on the boundaries being discussed. There is an acknowledgment of the need to visualize the problem to better understand the relationships between the variables.

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Homework Statement




The question is attached in the picture.


The Attempt at a Solution



From the question I deduced that there are 3 boundaries: red, green and blue.

Blue Boundary

This one is the easiest:

That part of the curve of y2 = 4a(a-x), which corresponds to u = a.


Red Boundary

This corresponds to x = 0, y > 0.
When x = 0,

y2 = 4u2 = 4v2, which corresponds to u = v.


Blue Boundary

This happens when y = 0, x > 0.

When y = 0,

u = 0 or u = x. ------ (1)

v = 0 or v = -x.

Not sure what is going on here...


To try and vizualize the boundaries in the u-v (u,v) plane, I tried to find the intersection between each boundary.

Blue-red Intersection

u = a AND u = v

Therefore, this corresponds to the point (a, a)

I've yet to find the red-green intersection and the blue-green intersection..
 

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I have a better idea..
Instead of going through and trying to formulate each of these piece by piece, try expressing x=x(u,v) and y=y(u,v)
For instance
[itex]y^{2}=4u(u-x)=4v(v+x)\Rightarrow 4(u^2-v^2)-4x(u+v)=0 \Rightarrow (u^2-v^2)=x(u+v)[/itex] so for x>0, and v≠-u≠0, we get [itex]x=u-v[/itex]
Using this, we find
[itex]y^2=4v(v+x)=4v(v+(u-v))=4uv\Rightarrow y=2\sqrt{uv}[/itex] (we can omit the plus or minus, because we are considering y>0.
 
unscientific said:

Homework Statement

The question is attached in the picture.

The Attempt at a Solution



From the question I deduced that there are 3 boundaries: red, green and blue.

Blue Boundary

This one is the easiest:

That part of the curve of y2 = 4a(a-x), which corresponds to u = a.Red Boundary

This corresponds to x = 0, y > 0.
When x = 0,

y2 = 4u2 = 4v2, which corresponds to u = v.Blue Boundary

This happens when y = 0, x > 0.

When y = 0,

u = 0 or u = x. ------ (1)

v = 0 or v = -x.

Not sure what is going on here...
You need to recognize that u and v are both non-negative. Then the only way to satisfy ##y^2=4v(v+x)=0## when x>0 is to have v=0.
 
Last edited:
vela said:
You need to recognize that u and v are both non-negative. Then the only way to satisfy ##y^2=4v(v+x)=0## when x>0 is to have v=0.

That is true, but they mentioned nothing about value of u=?
 
tt2348 said:
I have a better idea..
Instead of going through and trying to formulate each of these piece by piece, try expressing x=x(u,v) and y=y(u,v)
For instance
[itex]y^{2}=4u(u-x)=4v(v+x)\Rightarrow 4(u^2-v^2)-4x(u+v)=0 \Rightarrow (u^2-v^2)=x(u+v)[/itex] so for x>0, and v≠-u≠0, we get [itex]x=u-v[/itex]
Using this, we find
[itex]y^2=4v(v+x)=4v(v+(u-v))=4uv\Rightarrow y=2\sqrt{uv}[/itex] (we can omit the plus or minus, because we are considering y>0.

I understand that this is also a way to solve it. But sometimes the functions aren't as straightforward as these, so I would like to know the analytical method suggested here..
 
unscientific said:
That is true, but they mentioned nothing about value of u=?
It's easiest to see what's happening in the figure (Figure 6.1) you posted. If you're on the x-axis and x runs from 0 to 2, what values does u have to go through?

You can throw out the u=0 solution because with it, you won't have any restrictions on the value of x. That is, x can be any value and you'd satisfy both equations. But you need to ensure that x is between 0 and 2 on the bottom boundary.
 

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