How do I tell if the field is a possible electrostatic field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying whether a given vector field can be classified as a possible electrostatic field based on its characteristics, particularly through the analysis of field lines and mathematical criteria. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of electrostatic fields, including differential relations and integral conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the differential relations of an electrostatic field can be difficult to work with, but integrating them leads to more manageable statements, such as the integral relation that the line integral of the electric field around a closed loop is zero.
  • Another participant questions whether a field can be considered an electric field if it appears to have a net zero effect when traversing a loop, indicating a potential for being an electrostatic field.
  • Concerns are raised about the presence of curl in the electric field lines of a dipole, with one participant noting that an electric field must have zero curl to satisfy the condition E = -∇V.
  • Participants mention the necessity of having at least one source or sink in an electric field and discuss implications of closed electric field loops in vacuum, referencing Faraday's Law.
  • There is a discussion about the conditions under which the curl of an electric field can be constant and how this relates to static electric fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the characteristics that define an electrostatic field, particularly regarding the presence of curl and the implications of closed loops. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the criteria for identifying electrostatic fields.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the divergence of the electric field depends on the presence of charge, and there are references to the need for further amplification of certain concepts, such as the behavior of fields in specific environments.

theneedtoknow
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If I have a picture of the field lines of a field, how do I tell if the field is a possible electrostatic field? What are some things to look for that would imply it either is or is not a possible electric field?
 
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There are various criteria that comes to mind that would serve to disqualify a vector field as being an electrostatic one.

The idea is that the differential relations satisfied by an electrostatic field are local and as a result difficult to work with. But integrating them leads to more managable statements about the field.

For instance, starting from the differential relation that the field can be written as the gradient of a potential function ([itex]\mathbf{E}=-\nabla V[/itex]) and integrating along any closed loop, the fundamental theorem of line integral yields the integral relation

[tex]\int_{\gamma}\mathbf{E}\cdot d\mathbf{r}=0[/tex]

So you can start looking for loops for which this integral relation obviously fails.

What are other differential relations satisfied by an electrostatic field that beg to be integrated? The Maxwell equations of course! Derive analogous integral statements for those to obtain 2 more disqualifying criteria.
 
So if I have a field that looks something like
2cdfea.jpg

I can tell it could be an e-field because, if I start at any point on a loop and make a trip all the way back to the starting point, i will pass through as many arrows head on as i will tail on, so it nets to 0?
 
theneedtoknow said:
So if I have a field that looks something like
2cdfea.jpg

I can tell it could be an e-field because, if I start at any point on a loop and make a trip all the way back to the starting point, i will pass through as many arrows head on as i will tail on, so it nets to 0?

Are you sure this is a field?
 
Ok but say you draw field lines of a dipole, won't the E-field due to the dipole also have curl? (I know an E-field needs to have zero curl because E=-delV, only possible with zero curl, but just looking at the field lines of a dipole it looks...curly lol)
 
An electric field has one more thing not yet mentioned and not shown in your sketch.

At least one source and /or sink.
 
Studiot said:
An electric field has one more thing not yet mentioned and not shown in your sketch.

At least one source and /or sink.
How do you explain completely closed electric field loops in vacuum without a physical source, such as Faraday's Law:

∫E·dl = -(d/dt)∫B·n dA

Like around a 60-Hz transformer magnetic core with an enclosed dB/dt?

Bob S
 
Bob,
As I understand it the OP offered a loop where the integral

[tex]\oint {E.dl}[/tex] is zero.

This happens with electric fields generated by the presence of charges.
 
The OP did say it is a static field. So zero curl is required, or equivalently the integral given by studiot is zero.
Also, the divergence of E = ___? (Answer depends on whether charge is present.)
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Firstly, sorry about my presentation, I'm still struggling with Tex / Mathtype.

I should have added that the environment in which fields can turn right angles needs further amplification.

Also that magnetic fields can give rise to electric ones, as Bob noted, if we allow the integral to be non zero.
 
  • #11
Redbelly98 said:
The OP did say it is a static field. So zero curl is required, or equivalently the integral given by studiot is zero.
Wouldn't Curl E = constant qualify as a static electric field? So as long as dB/dt is a constant, the induced electric field is constant.

Bob S
 

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