How do photons split into electrons and positrons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of photon splitting into electron-positron pairs, exploring the underlying physics and mathematical representations. Participants engage with concepts from special relativity, four-momentum, and the conditions necessary for pair production, including the role of additional particles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the mathematical representation of photon splitting, specifically questioning the implications of momentum and energy conservation in the context of massless photons.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while photons lack mass, they possess momentum, which can be demonstrated through their interaction with surfaces, applying force as described by relativistic equations.
  • A later reply clarifies that pair production requires the presence of another particle, typically an atomic nucleus, to conserve momentum, indicating that this process cannot occur in a vacuum.
  • Additional participants confirm that four-momentum is not conserved in the photon to electron-positron transition without another body to account for the momentum difference.
  • One participant references external material to support the discussion, noting that two photons can also produce a pair without a massive particle, presenting a different scenario from annihilation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of an additional particle for pair production to occur, but there are differing views on the specifics of momentum conservation and the conditions under which photon interactions can lead to electron-positron pair creation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the role of momentum and energy in photon interactions, particularly in relation to mass and the conditions required for pair production. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the conservation laws in these processes.

DuckAmuck
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I'm confused about how photons are able to split into electrons and positrons. Learning about four dimensional vectors, but it's still not clear how this happens.
The photon will have a vector of P=(E,p), where p^2=E^2, so P^2=0, since photons don't have mass.
It must be that P = P1 + P2, where P1 and P2 are electron and positron.
P1 = (E1,p1), where E1^2 = p1^2 + m^2.
So (E,p) = (E1,p1) + (E2, p2) = (E1+E2,p1+p2)
So (E,p)^2 = 0 = m^2 + m^2 + E1*E2 - p1*p2
So is the product of p1 and p2 really equal to m^2 + m^2 + E1*E2?!
That would suggest that either p1 or p2 is greater than it's corresponding energy, which would make mass negative.
What am I missing?
 
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Photons don't have mass, but they DO have momentum! ;) This is sneaky, but it comes from Special Relativistic equations. In fact, this is measurable, if you shine a light on a surface, the light will actually apply a force on that surface! F=dp/dt

check out some of these formulas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon#Physical_properties

The equation for relativistic momentum is
[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/d/d2dec44ba56c41a31b4d334b144b51d6.png[/URL]
where
[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/c/3/9c3f2777ac6cb5f4c9c1edc647c68311.png[/URL]

If v=c, such is the case for a photon, the gamma term goes to infinity, and when multiplied with zero, well, the result is not easily determinable, but it often equals a real number, such as is the case here with photons.
 
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You are missing that for pair production to occur, another particle (usually an atomic nucleus) must be nearby to contribute momentum. Pair production does not occur in vacuum.
 
Yup. Four-momentum is not conserved in photon->electron+positron. You need another body to pick up the difference.
 
nicklaus and K^2 are correct. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production for a brief introduction. Note that it is possible for two photons to produce a pair in the absence of a massive particle. This is the reverse of anhillation.
 

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