How do PID temp controllers implement control

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implementation of temperature control for a snow heating mat project using nichrome heating wires and an Arduino. Participants explore the feasibility and methods of using PID control versus simpler control strategies, particularly focusing on the practical aspects of temperature regulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on implementing PID control for temperature regulation, questioning the need for variable resistors or other methods to vary power output.
  • Another participant argues that PID control may not be necessary, suggesting that a simple proportional control with a deadband would suffice to prevent cycling.
  • A participant provides links to the Arduino PID library and examples of its use with relays, noting that in some cases, only proportional control is utilized by setting I and D to zero.
  • There is a clarification regarding the term "deadband," which is necessary to prevent endless cycling in on-off control systems.
  • One participant outlines a basic control strategy using temperature (T), set point (P), and deadband (D) to determine when to turn the heating element on or off.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and appropriateness of PID control for the heating mat project. While some advocate for simpler control methods, others provide resources for implementing PID control, indicating that no consensus has been reached on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the effectiveness of different control strategies and the implications of using deadband with proportional control. There are unresolved questions regarding the safety and practicality of using proportional control with solid-state relays.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in temperature control systems, Arduino projects, and those exploring different control strategies in engineering applications.

Engn_sam
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My group members and I are trying to build a snow heating mat. So far, we are using nichrome heating wires sandwiched in silicone rubber connected to an arduino that controls a solid state relay to turn on and off electric current from a wall plug. What I want to know is how to control the temperature. We decided to stick with an on and off control since it's the easiest to work out but I want to know how you implement a P or PID control. Do I need like a variable resistor or something? Or what way is the PID control supposed to vary the power output?
 
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I don't think PI or PID is justified for something like that. A simple proportional control wi a dead and will do.

You need the dead and to prevent it from cycling endlessly.
 
Here is the arduino PID library:
http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PIDLibrary

Here is an example using the library with a relay:
http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PIDLibraryRelayOutputExample

Background on the development of the arduino PID library:
http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/

Some background on control theory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory

If you google "arduino sous vide" you'll get many results where a relay, heater & PID* are used together with an arduino to maintain a temperature setpoint.

*While a PID controller is used, I & D are set to zero so it's P only. like anorlunda recommends.
 
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anorlunda said:
I don't think PI or PID is justified for something like that. A simple proportional control wi a dead and will do.

You need the dead and to prevent it from cycling endlessly.
What's a dead and. and is it safe to use a proportional control with a solid-state relay
 
With on-off control, you need deadband to prevent endless cycling. With deadband, you can't use integral control, because that would cycle.

All you need is two statements. Let T be temperature, P set point, and D deadband.

if P-T > D then turn_on;
If T-P > D then turn_off;

D is your only tuning parameter.

Good luck.
 

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