How do things of opposite charge attract?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of how particles with opposite charges, such as electrons and positrons, attract each other. Participants explore the underlying mechanisms, philosophical implications, and the limitations of current physical theories in explaining this phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Philosophical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how virtual photon exchange leads to attraction between an electron and a positron, questioning the nature of this interaction.
  • Another participant suggests that the question may be more philosophical than physical, noting that physics describes the behavior of forces rather than their mechanisms.
  • A participant finds comfort in the uncertainty surrounding the question, indicating satisfaction with the acknowledgment that "no one knows" the answer.
  • One participant shares a resource that explains attractive forces using virtual particles, suggesting it may be helpful.
  • A different participant argues that while the existence of attractive forces is not fully understood, the concept of virtual particle exchange can explain the attraction, although it does not clarify why attraction occurs in the first place.
  • Another participant proposes that the attraction could be related to a theme of balance in the universe, suggesting that everything seeks balance, thus leading to the attraction between oppositely charged particles.
  • The same participant notes that this balance notion is philosophical and does not apply universally, as seen with gravity, which is always attractive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the explanation for attraction between opposite charges. There are competing views regarding the sufficiency of virtual particle theory and the philosophical implications of balance in the universe.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of current theories in providing a qualitative description of the mechanisms behind attractive forces, highlighting the unresolved nature of the question.

joshi-wan kenobi
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I've racked my brain over this one since I was 15 and I really can't figure it out. I can see how two electrons would bounce away from each other with the exchange of a virtual photon, since one pushes off on the photon and the other absorbs it(even if I don't understand how the electron knows when to shoot out the photon, in which direction and where it goes when it's absorbed). But how a positron and an electron can attract with the same kind of exchange is completely beyond me. Is this just the kinda weirdness that goes on at those levels?
 
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In all honesty, this kind of question is really more in the realm of philosophy or the "theory development" thread, than in general physics.

Physics doesn't really describe the mechanisms of the forces as much as it describes their behavior. Even if you go to the unified field theories, or whatnot, there really isn't a good qualitative description of how the forces work.
 
Thanks, Nate. You put years of wonder to rest with the answer "no one knows." And in a weird way that satisfies me somehow. Now I can get some rest while I wait for them to build bigger particle accelerators. :smile:
 


Originally posted by Ambitwistor
It's not quite true that this is not understood. We don't know why attractive forces exist in the first place, but we understand how virtual particle exchange can result in attraction. There is even a FAQ on this, but IMHO it's not too clearly written for the layman:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html

What an irony! We both posted the same link and almost at the same time!
 
Would it not lie in the theme of balanace? Everthing in the universe should/'wants to be balanced therefore an electron will attract a positron?
 


Originally posted by Ambitwistor
It's not quite true that this is not understood. We don't know why attractive forces exist in the first place, but we understand how virtual particle exchange can result in attraction. There is even a FAQ on this, but IMHO it's not too clearly written for the layman:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html

I'm not trying to denigrate the theory of virtual particles, but this doesn't really answer the question that was asked.
Unfortunately this theory does little but replace one set of behavioral descriptions with another. Instead of an electromagnetic field, there is now a quantum field or virtual particle. AFAIK this model makes better predictions than Maxwell's, but it still doesn't explain the atraction.

Would it not lie in the theme of balanace? Everthing in the universe should/'wants to be balanced therefore an electron will attract a positron?
That notion is, as I predicted, philosophic in nature. Moreover, it does not apply to other forces, such as gravity (which is universally attractive).
 

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