How Do You Derive the Lagrangian for a Pendulum on an Oscillating Cart?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on deriving the Lagrangian for a simple pendulum attached to an oscillating cart. The system consists of a pendulum with mass M and length L, suspended from a cart with mass m that oscillates on a spring with force constant k. The Lagrangian is expressed as L = T - U, where T represents kinetic energy and U represents potential energy. The participants aim to formulate the correct expressions for T and U, ultimately leading to the Lagrange equations for the system.

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  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics
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  • Knowledge of generalized coordinates in classical mechanics
  • Basic principles of oscillatory motion and spring dynamics
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noranne
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Homework Statement



A simple pendulum (mass M and length L) is suspended from a cart (mass m) that can oscillate on the end of a spring of force constant k. Write the Lagrangian in terms of the two generalized coordinates x and \phi, where x is the extension of the spring from its equilibrium length. Find the two Lagrange equations.



Homework Equations



L = T - U

\frac{\partial L}{\partial x} - \frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}}) = 0

\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi} - \frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\phi}}) = 0


The Attempt at a Solution



So far I'm thinking T = \frac{1}{2}M\dot{x}^2 + \frac{1}{2}M(L\dot{\phi} + \dot{x}) and U = \frac{1}{2}kx^2 + -Lcos(\phi)Mg

I feel like that's wrong, like the potential energy of the pendulum might not just depend on its height below the track. And the kinetic energy might be wrong. Really, this problem is totally throwing me for a loop, after I was feeling pretty confident about Lagrangian mechanics for about 4 problems. Any help??
 
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noranne said:
So far I'm thinking T =+ \frac{1}{2}M(L\dot{\phi})^21 + \dot{x})

This should be T =+ \frac{1}{2}M(L\dot{\phi})^2
The rest looks OK.
 
That's not right either.

In the frame attached to the cart, the kinetic term is:
T'=M/2(\dot{x'}^2 + \dot{y'}^2)

where \dot{x'}=L\dot{\phi}cos \phi. In the lab frame, this becomes:

T=M/2((\dot{x'}+\dot{x})^2 + \dot{y'}^2)
 

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